Help out a guy in need of female advice!
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| Tue, 07-19-2005 - 3:05pm |
Hi ladies, I'm sorry I'm invading your webspace here, but I'm tired of getting advice on women from men. They have a good manly perspective, but I think I need a woman's perspective. Again, I apologize if I shouldn't be here since this is a woman's site.
First some background: I'm 27 and this girl (we'll call Lisa) is almost 26. She's literally the most beautiful woman I have ever seen, and we've been dating on and off for the past 2 years, mostly due to her not seeming like she was very interested, but she has also been gone for 6 months this past year. I have found over time that she is just very shy, not very social, and since she's insecure (as most women seem to be), she doesn't respond to guys who don't show a ton of interest in her first. This made me think maybe she's a player, but I've found that also to be false. I admit it was infatuation at first site, but over the past 2 years I've discovered this woman also has some inside qualities that also amaze me. I'm not saying she's perfect, but if she ends up being who I think she is, and I end up with her (marriage), I will have died and gone to heaven.
The current situation: Lisa has been madly in love with this guy off and on for 5 years (who we'll call Mr. Jerk). Mr. Jerk has been just that to her. I don't know everything that's gone on, but he has teased her with marriage at least a couple times, including very recently back in April, which he quickly withdrew and broke her heart for the last time (we hope). She moved away from him, moved back home with her family (where I happen to live also), and now we are dating yet again for the past month or so.
The problem: We were hanging out on Sunday night, and we walked into her bedroom, and she had several pictures on her window sill. The first few were of family and friends, but the last 4 or 5 were of her and this guy Mr. Jerk. One of them was a good sized one of them kissing. She thought I didn't know who these pictures were of so she said, "Oh that's with a guy a year ago, don't worry." However, I knew these several pictures were of Mr. Jerk. I didn't say anything, but was a bit surprised after all she had been put through by him, and how she had seemed to really move on from him this last time that he had broke her heart again. So her and I hung out a few more minutes and I left unhappy.
The question: Why do girls hang on to guys who treat them like crap? (age-old question I know) Also, since I've been treating her so well, (taking her out, writing her letters/emails letting her know I appreciate her, getting her little surprises like burning a CD of music for her or taking her to her favorite places) why does she not seem to be excited about me? Maybe she's just attracted to jerks, or maybe I'm not exciting enough for her. I know I don't need to be treating her poorly (be Mr. Bad Boy) like he has, that's just dumb. However, I have never had a problem getting girls in the past. I have the confidence, looks, security, intelligence, and humor that has me beating off girls with a stick. However, I feel like Will Smith in the movie "Hitch", where he just can't seem to get things right with Eva Mendez. No matter what I do, Lisa usually seems to be luke warm with me. Her sister says to just give it time, and to show Lisa that I really do appreciate her via compliments, reassurements, etc. since she is insecure about some things. I don't know I completely buy that.
Ladies, I've tried everything with this girl over the past 2 years, and maybe she's just depressed, or maybe she's just too into Mr. Jerk and has to get over him. Maybe it's too soon to be dating her again since her last breakup with him was in April. Maybe she's just not the one, and as much as I am head over heels for her, maybe I should just move on, because this hurts too much sometimes. Any advice would be wonderful. I love hearing a woman's perspective, I have three sisters and adore each one. I'm trying to do the same with Lisa, but to no avail. Thank you so much.
-Midwest Jake

A couple thoughts:
1. Emotionally healthy women are NOT attracted to men who treat them poorly (so you can do the math here).
2. She's not honest with you...that's never a good sign. Nor is she over her ex...also not a good sign.
3. You guys have known each other a long time, so you should be able to talk to each other without a bunch of BS. I think the best course of action would be to level with her (that she just doesn't seem to be that into you and you don't want to continue to date her if she's not) and ask her to contact you if and when she is ready to commit to a serious r'ship with you. Frankly, it sounds like she's using you right now to feel better about herself. You need to value yourself more, and maybe she will if you do.
Sheri
ok, here's the thing with "nice guys." nice guys sometimes think that if they treat a woman nicely enough, she should naturally fall in love with them. therefore, they set their sights on the most attractive woman they see, treat her as nicely as possible, and are shocked when the woman doesn't fall head over heels.
the problem is not that women are all perverse and illogical. it's that women want more than to be treated nicely. we want to know that you're actually the right guy for us... if we sense that you're just being nice because you're attracted to us, that's not going to fly.
the more beautiful a woman is, the more she will feel this way. why? because a really attractive woman has already had about 60,000 nice guys "fall in love" with her. many of them will have nothing whatsoever in common with her. others will lose interest in her once their initial physical attraction cools off. after it happens enough times, a beautiful woman will grow jaded. every time a new guy comes along and treats her nicely, she will automatically assume that he's just doing it because he's attracted to her.
take this to its logical conclusion. once she automatically rules out all nice guys, the only ones left are the guys who aren't nice - the jerks.
so if you want to get past this girl's defenses, try acting like a jerk. it worked for the last guy, didn't it? but you also need to do a little soul searching. why did you choose this particular girl to be nice to? if you were struck blind and impotent tomorrow, would you still want to hang out with her above all other human beings? would she even be in your top 5? if not, well... you get where i'm going with this... maybe her defenses are there for a reason.
Hi Jake,
FYI - We don't mind having guys visit at all. So please stick around.
There are many times WE could use a male perspective.
I kind of agree with charite and I kind of don't. I do agree that what she is suggesting will probably work, if all you're concerned about is it working go for it.
Here's the thing though, this girl is VERY insecure and that's why she stays with guys who treat her like crap. (Take it from a woman who has done the very same thing.) She will find your distance and interest in other women intriguing because it will make you fit the same pattern of Mr. Jerk. But I don't really think that's what you are going for.
Charite is absolutely right that you should proceed with caution lest you end up Mr Rebound. This girl needs time to explore who she is and become more confident in herself. I'd be willing to bet money she hasn't the foggiest notion how to be on her own and not have a boyfriend. She immediately hops from Mr Jerk to your ever waiting arms everytime she leaves him or he dumps her. This is not healthy behavior and if I were you I wouldn't get involved with her until she's worked out whatever issues she has that are leading to this sort of codependant self-destructive behavior.
Keep in mind if you do the thing that is probably healthiest for you, move on and persue someone else, she will probably be more interested. Problem with that is it doesn't mean she's worked anything out it just means she misses the attention. Which is normal for her to do, but is not neccessarily something that you should respond to as it's probably coming from the fact she misses the male attention, not neccessarily YOUR attention.
It sounds like she is a person whose self-esteem is dependent on other people stroking her ego and paying attention to her, she needs to mature and get over that and develope REAL self-esteem. My advice, try be her friend but move on romantically, this is not the right girl for you right now. If ultimately she IS the right girl she'll work through this stuff and the two of you will get your chance when she's in a better place emotionally and self-esteem wise.
Wow, that was put so well! I tried explaining that to someone but it didn't come across quite as clear ! I think I said something along the lines of "someone being more interested in the "idea of someone" more than the actual someone.
Jake, are you always complimenting her? That might have the reverse affect with this particular woman. I agree with everyone that she is probably using you for the attention, and not much else. ( and sadly I know, because I have done it!)