Help! Where do you draw the line?

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-06-2003
Help! Where do you draw the line?
43
Wed, 08-17-2005 - 2:35pm

I don't want to swear off men completely and think I'll always be alone... and I don't want to fall back into the trap of being attracted to bad boys...

Basically I don't trust myself to fall for the right guy!! The guy I'm with now has a good job, takes good care of his daughter, owns his own home, does things for me (fixes my car, cleans my house, helped me move, etc), looks after my son. He even calls when he says he'll call. And he is affectionate! Basically he has everything I was looking in a guy exept for a couple of traits I'm having trouble dealing with. Okay, so what about the bad qualities your asking? He can be controlling (doesn't like to be left alone for long periods of time because he feels "abandoned", especially if left in unfamiliar areas), he thinks he is always right, he hardly ever says he is sorry (unless he feels he has reason to say he's sorry), he questions me about what I do and what my motives are, he is an extreme penny-pincher (he complained the entire time we were on vacation about how much everything is costing, from the food to the gas), and he and I clash as far as him being more of a homebody and me wanting to be out and around large groups of people. Also he expects me to read his mind, because he shouldn't have to "tell" me these things.... I should automatically "know" something.

Basically, I know I'm a commitment phobe and I tend to run away from relationships when the going gets tough... I don't trust myself enough to know when I can make the right decision to leave... or because I expect a relationship to be perfect and there won't be any bumps in the road... I see it this way... if someone is not willing to budge on anything, why should I be the one to budge on everything? I just don't know when I am being unrealistic when it comes to leaving a relationship... someone told me if you are unhappy most of the time, it's as good enough a reason as anything... she said you don't need infidelity or physical abuse in order to warrant leaving a relationship. I stayed in many relationships that I was the one giving all the time and not receiving anything. Maybe I'm the one in this relationship who is the taker and he's getting frustrated with me the way I was frustrated with them...

He is VERY abrupt in the way he asks me questions. I've asked him time and time again to be a little less abrasive when asking things because otherwise I automatically get defensive or shutdown when questioned out-of-the-blue. For example, a couple of weeks ago when I moved in with my mom, I decided to stay a few days at her house instead of his house (but I didn't tell him I was doing this...each day I just told him I was planning to spend the night at my mom's instead of coming over like I normally do)... So after the week was over he asks me, "Is this going to be a pattern from now on?" With a very harsh tone of voice. I kept telling him I had a problem with the way he approached this, and he accused me of being upset because he "caught on" to my "pattern" and was questioning me about it before it got to be more of pattern. He said I should have told him I was spending the time at my mom's so that he would know this. I think this was a trust issue.

Then another time I wore a tank top a couple of times in a row and I was approached with "What's the matter? Did you run out of shirts to wear?" Later to find out it made him uncomfortable for me to be that exposed (I have a big chest). One day he can take, but he said a couple of days in a row seemed to be unusual for me, especially since the weather was not as hot as it had been last week and I didn't wear them then (I said the reason I was wearing the tank tops was because I was hot...he doesn't have A/C at his house and I walked out the door in the tank top). He accepted my reason, and didn't bring it up since.

I know partly I am looking for a reason out... because I'm afraid of commitment... When things are going too easy and there is no more of a challenge I tend to seek out the wrong and then abandon ship!

Help! I don't know what I need to do anymore! I feel that after we talk things start to mkae sense again and I realize why I'm with him, but I'm so afraid to get hurt again that I want to end things now before something bad happens like him cheating on me! And I feel I have built a wall around my heart that he hasn't been able to completely penetrate. I feel like I want for him to give me all, but I can't give it my all because I just did that in my previous relationship and he took all my giving powers away... I know that relationships are give and take, but I'm afraid if I give too much, he won't keep giving the way he is giving now....


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iVillage Member
Registered: 08-17-2005
Wed, 08-17-2005 - 2:46pm
i think youre fairly intuitive on ur on emotions. youre right your past relationships have scared you. i think the solution to this relationship is merely trust. do u trust him? do u believe that he doesn't care about u? have u ever asked him why he is so verbally abrasive? these are things you should consider. it sounds as if u both really care about each other, that he's afraid of loosing u, and ur afraid of letting him in. u need to talk. express ur emotions, ur concerns, and most importantly don't conceal/hide or lie about the truth. tell him, in the end it will be worth it.
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-06-2003
Wed, 08-17-2005 - 2:52pm

Thank you for your input... what did you mean by don't conceal/lie about the truth?

His idea of being abrasive is notn "sugar-coating" things, just telling it like he sees it and getting straight to the point. I myself am extremely indirect and prefer to avoid conflict at all costs!

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2005
Wed, 08-17-2005 - 5:14pm

I'll be honest. You should leave him. He may not be a "bad boy" in your terms, but he's not GREAT either. However............

you both need to do a lot of work on yourselves. Myself being an upfront type of person, and bf being a conflict avoider, I get so irate when he can't just tell me the truth. Why couldn't YOU tell him the truth about staying at your mom's? What were you so afraid of?

And all these traits of his, "He can be controlling (doesn't like to be left alone for long periods of time because he feels "abandoned", especially if left in unfamiliar areas), he thinks he is always right, he hardly ever says he is sorry (unless he feels he has reason to say he's sorry), he questions me about what I do and what my motives are, he is an extreme penny-pincher (he complained the entire time we were on vacation about how much everything is costing, from the food to the gas), and he and I clash as far as him being more of a homebody and me wanting to be out and around large groups of people. Also he expects me to read his mind, because he shouldn't have to "tell" me these things.... I should automatically "know" something."

Are big huge red flags of someone that is insecure and co-dependent. It seems, he MAY be a good guy, but he's not compatible for you, AT ALL. Controlling how you dress, BAD. NEEDING you be there so he doesn't feel abandonded. BAD. Penny pincher that you don't like, BAD. homebody, that youdon't like BAD.

So no worries, on this one, you're not running cuz of a fear of commitment. You want to run, becuase he may not cheat or abuse you, but he is HURTING you in many ways.

My two cents. Get therapy about your conflict avoidance. Because many ppl WILL see what you are doing as dishonest and lying (even if you don't see it that way). And realize that you don't have to be cheated on or abused, for the guy to be a BAD guy. And just cuz he takes care ofyou and your kid, doesn't mean he's good either.

BTW, my xbf, took very good care of me. Took care of the house, money, car, etc. However, he also beat me daily, and controlled when I could go out, where I could go, what I could wear, and whom I could talk to. Can't say he was that great.

~pineapple_girl

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-16-1997
Wed, 08-17-2005 - 5:21pm

I draw the line at guys who:

Are controlling;
Think they're always right;
Seldom or hardly ever apologize;
Give me the third degree about my personal choices/motives;
Are cheap/penny-pinchers;
Expect me to read their mind; and
Speak to me in a harsh tone.

The behaviors I've listed above were most of the glaring RED FLAGS that were in the second paragraph of your post. Hon, you don't even have to look for a reason to end it with him because he's already given you PLENTY!!

So in closing I'll say three words:

RUN POOLDIVA!!! RUN!!!

Take care,
Heymum

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-06-2003
Thu, 08-18-2005 - 11:05am

Pineapple Girl,

I remember you writing a response to me a while back and I've always liked your honest and fresh look on things.

I was just talking to one of my best friends last night and she said nearly the same thing you and the poster from the next post said. Everyday it seems I'm less and less like myself... I took too long to make a decision in my previous BAD relationship and I knew what to do THEN like I know what to do NOW... I guess that's why they say to get to know someone before you get married, have children, and/or move in together… We’ve been together 8 months now… but the problems seemed to have peaked 4 months into the relationship. The first time we took a trip together...

That’s also a good relationship tester… How you get along with someone during a long trip. He totally flipped out on me and my best friend commented on how he was being controlling, erratic, and childish. I went for a walk to clear my head, because my son was crying and neither one of us could get some sleep. So I suggested that I would go for a walk and give my bf time to take a nap. He told me not to do him any favors, and if I wanted to go for a walk then why don’t I just own up and admit that I just want to go for walk. He claimed that this is the REAL reason why I want to go for a walk, and it wasn’t about giving him a “break”. So I said, FINE! I’m going for a walk… I was gone maybe about 15 min, when I got back… he was gone! I knocked at the room next door (we went together on this trip with my best friend and her husband), and told them that my bf took off and I couldn’t find him. We searched the hotel and roads as much as we could, but didn’t find him. At this time the car was still there. So instead of sitting in the room waiting on him, not knowing where he was, I left him a note to let him know I went for a longer walk with my best friend and I would be back at 6:30pm. Well, 6:30pm rolls around still no sign of him, I call his cell phone and I immediately get his voicemail (he turned off his phone). Then I walked down, and saw the car was gone. I kept thinking, thank goodness I’m not here alone and I have my best friend here… would he have done this to me if it was just us? He claims he went to look for me by the pool (because I said I would probably see if my friend and her husband were by the pool), and then when he didn't see me he went back up to the room he found “my note” and got very angry! He claims it was a way to sneak out and do whatever I wanted… so I didn’t have to face him and tell him I wanted to go for a walk with my friend… and that he sees a note as a cop out. He wasn’t about to sit in the room waiting on me, so he took off with the car to drive around and then he stopped by the grocery store to get my son some yogurt and milk for tomorrow morning’s breakfast. He acted very cold and distant and claimed I should have searched the hotel better and I would have found him by the pool. BTW he didn’t make it back to the room until 9:30pm!

I got mad and told him he didn’t call ME or give ME the decency of leaving ME a note like I did for him. He tells me he doesn’t like notes, and said he wouldn’t have left me a note and that HE would have waiting to find me in person to tell me what he was doing. Then I asked him why his phone was turned off, since I couldn't even find him via the phone. He claimed he waiting 30 min to hear from me, but after seeing my note and not finding me he turned it off. He said maybe that was HIS way to get some "peace and quiet" away from me calling him. Then that night I slept in the other bed with my son (who was 15 months at the time) because he wasn’t sleeping well in the hotel crib. Well my bf wakes me up at 3:00am to tell me that he hasn't been able to sleep all night and that me sleeping in the other bed and not with him is a clear break-up move on my part.

He was already revealing his true self then, but I didn’t want to see it…. Now I know what people mean when they say… but he was so GOOD and so NICE at the beginning of our relationship! Then he changed! To them and me it seems like he changed overnight, but in retrospect he was actually changing slowly… so that I keep thinking it’s all in my head… But he’s done this for me… and he’s done this for me… I must be exaggerating… Or he’s not that BAD…. Other people have it worse than I do…

What I have come to realize is… there can only be more bad coming… Not only that but after the last trip we took together this past weekend… I was on pins and needles the entire time, and then the way back was HELL…. Again, he pouted, and complained and whined about how much the trip was costing him… When we stayed for FREE at my sister’s house and used MY car, and I paid for half of ALL expenses! I think the icing on the cake was when he complained about having had to pay for a passport to go and then having to pay taxes on everything while we were there (we were visiting Canada, and then have double taxes on everything).

Thanks for listening to my dribble… I’m now trying to picture the most graceful way to bow down out of this one… I have a few things at his place… Should I end it somewhere neutral like a coffee shop… then ask to go to his place to collect my belongings? Or should I slowly collect the things from his place (I think he will get wise to this one and confront me by pitching a fit)... You know how I hate conflict (sarcasm)... HELP!

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2005
Thu, 08-18-2005 - 11:15am

Why not leave a note? j/k.

I think it'd be best if you went to his house, have a gf or something outside, start collecting your stuff and at some point, tell him "we're over" and walk out.

Tell your gf, if you aren't out in like 10 mins or something, to come knock on the door, at least, even if you two are only talking, he knows she's there with you. So he won't do anything stupid.

Hugs. I know the feeling. It sucks. THIS part, is the worst. Having to do to deed. I'd want to avoid it at all possibilities too.

~pineapple_girl

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-06-2003
Thu, 08-18-2005 - 11:25am

Thank you heymum, I like how you highlighted back my writing...or in other words READ BETWEEN THE LINES :)

You will read some more in my response to Pineapple Girl that I see the writing on the wall and it is telling me to RUN LIKE THE WIND!

I asked him yesterday if he remembers a time he apologized to me... He said yes, twice. Once when he called me a redneck (I confronted him on this insult...and told him I didn't appreciate his rude comment... which he congratulated me for standing up to him. He was referring to the time I was holding my son in my arms while drinking a bottle of beer), and the other time (and he noted he said it in a sarcastic tone/way) when he confronted me on something (I can't remember now what it was) and then I explained the reason WHY I did what I did, then he gave me a half-aa** Oh, OK. I'm sorrrrrrrry.

I honestly can admit this to myself now... I DO need some time to be alone... at least for a couple of months... I have not had a break in a relationship since I was 18. I'm 29 now... If gone from relationship to relationship...marriage to divorce, cheater bf that led to pregnancy.... I think I am more scared to be "alone" than I am to be in a bad relationship... I saw my mom as a "loser" for living with my grandmother until she was 35 and then she got married. But who she got married to was a controlling, abusive, stingy, self-centered, self-absorbed, alcoholic, workaholic man. I had to jump through hoops to get ANY attention or affection from him. He considered my mother and I as an expense to him. We drained him of his hard-earning money...as he put it. He always has to PAY PAY PAY.

I think this was my wake-up call with my current bf, he cares/loves his money more than he cares/loves me!

I've had trouble ending relationships... I know there is no easy way. Also, I'm used to having a warm relationship to fall back on and the unknown future is SCARY! But I know it will be a lot healthier next time if I do it the right way this time... plus I won't keep packing up my emotional baggage and bringing it into a new relationship....

Thanks for listening,

PoolDiva

(*edited for privacy reasons)




Edited 8/30/2005 5:05 pm ET ET by pooldiva
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-16-1997
Thu, 08-18-2005 - 1:54pm

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PD,

I read your earlier post about going over to his place to retrieve your things. Having been in an abusive relationship before, if I were you, I wouldn't take any chances. Going over with a girlfriend may not be enough to ensure your safety. I say this because the guy goes to such extremes, even with having a cow over you sleeping in the bed next to your son instead of him -- I doubt he'd let you go peacefully or without things escalating into a verbal tirade. Please, for your sake and that of your son's, GET A COP to accompany you. As long as you can get all of your things quickly, I see no reason why law enforcement wouldn't be willing to see you in and out safely. I'll admit, going with a cop may seem a bit much, but you never know what he may be capable of saying or doing once faced with the reality that you want out of the relationship. Showing up at his door with a cop, who would probably speak for you and let him know you're there to get your things, he'll be less likely to act up or do anything stupid. Plus, I imagine he'll be more likely to hold his tongue and not go off on a verbal tirade with the officer there.

As for your fear of being alone, I am here to tell you that being alone is so much better than being in a bad relationship. Being alone frees you up to find love with a good man! I left an abusive marriage back in '03 after 7.5 years of hell. I too feared my XH would become physically violent, so I left while he was at work. By the time he returned home, I was long gone. I filed for divorce before I left and my atty. timed everything so that he was served AFTER I left. Fortunately for me, my folks and loved ones were out on the west coast, which was FAR away from him!! So when I left, I left in a BIG WAY and got the heck outta dodge and that entire midwest state.

So I say all of that to say don't be afraid of being by yourself. Having the space and freedom to do what you want, how you want and when you want is tremendously empowering. Like a lot of women, I spent all of my 20's and into my early 30's wanting desperately to be married. You know, put on the white dress, blah-blah-blah. I never imagined my XH would ever mistreat me because he had been so good to me while we were dating. We were casual friends for about a year and then dated eight months before marrying. It was the biggest mistake of my life, but now I truly value my freedom as a happily divorced woman more than I ever did prior to my former marriage.

Now that I'm in my 40's hon, life is SWEET!! God has tremendously blessed me with a great life and now I date guys on MY terms. There isn't too much I'm willing to put up with anymore and for that reason, I'll probably never marry again. But that's okay. I'd rather have my FREEDOM than be stuck in a loveless/abusive marriage any day of the week.

Take care and GET THAT COP to accompany you, okay?

Be safe sweetie.
Heymum

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-06-2003
Thu, 08-18-2005 - 2:38pm

Heymum,

Thanks for your advice and words... I am still struggling with the whole ordeal.... it's going to take a lot for me to decide how and when to do this... Right now I had a long talk with him and he was very calm... but of course he doesn't see anything wrong with what he does... He's claiming that he doesn't control what I wear or whether or not I choose to wear makeup. He only tells me his level of comfort and what he can or can't deal with. If I choose to bear a lot of skin (which is what he is uncomfortable with), then he may or may not be comfortable with that. He is warning me of his level of comfort so that if he chooses it is not something he can deal with then he will have to tell me it's not working out and that way if won't come as a shock to me when and if it happens.

I can wear whatever I want, and do whatever I choose to do. I mentioned how I miss going to the gym, playing pool, getting a massage, etc... And I mentioned how I did it to myself with abandoning those things, and that I want to pick them up again. He came up with the defense that we have children, so it's natural that things slow down and I can't have the exact same lifestyle that I had in the past. He has chosen to accept that his life has changed and move forward with new plans for the future that include me and my son. But I seem to want to cling onto the past and still act as a single person with no family...

He just sent me an e-mail psoing a hypothetical question:

"Would you have a problem with me occasionally smoking some weed? I don't need it in a way any different than you need the occasional glass of wine with dinner."

Because I just told him I miss my glass of wine at dinner earlier... Also I told him about me being comfortable wearing a tank top, and he tried to give a similar scenario with him going around wearing chap pants and having his cheeks hanging out and if I was comfortable with that scenario... of which I said no, but that is not the same thing. He said it was to him, because in both cases we're showing too much of our bodies and too much skin...

Anyone's two cents?

Oh yes, and he thinks I'm too sensitive because I got offended at him asking me "What's wrong? Did you run out of shirts to wear?" because he argues that if I literally "ran" out of things to wear, then he has no choice but to "deal" with me wearing the tank top... but he was "gathering" information to know if I had other clothes to wear or not... BS to me! What does that matter? I asked... If I chose to wear it or not based on if I had other clothes or not is NOT the issue... So then he said well then I chose to wear and he was letting me know he was uncomfortable.




Edited 8/18/2005 3:03 pm ET ET by pooldiva
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-06-2003
Thu, 08-18-2005 - 3:43pm

HIM: LOL!

I was just asking a hypothetical question...I used the wine for a reference of the "need" for it. I wasn't comparing wine to weed. You said you need an occasional glass of wine so I used wine for a reference. I was just curious if you would have a problem if I said that I need to smoke an occasional joint. Now I know.

It's no excuse but people (everyone) take risk and break laws all the time...ever speed...ever roll through a stop sign...ever used profanity in public...ever drank and drive?

At one time alcohol was illegal and weed is legalized in CA.

We risk losing our job every time we come in late to work.

ME:Thank you.

However, your analogy is not equally based… because drinking the occasional wine does not place me at risk for any law-breaking or job-losing situations…

HIM: Kewl. You are very liberal.

ME: If it absolutely has no affect on my children or on myself, then it’s your body, your choice, and your problem. The minute I see it affecting your health (like you will DIE if I don’t intervene), my family or myself only then does it becomes MY problem.

HIM: Are you every going to answer the hypothetical question or are you just going to just keep asking me questions?
hypothetically...have not stopped...know the risk but taking it any way.

ME: So you are hypothetically saying you haven’t stopped and you have no worries about losing your job or going to jail, are we on the same hypothetical page?

HIM: Hypothetically speaking, didn't "stop", yes and yes.

ME: Hypothetical speaking, did you stop smoking weed after dating me? Would you run the risk of having to take undergo a random drug test (thereby running the risk of losing your job)? Would you run the risk of getting arrested?

HIM: Hypothetical speaking, Would you have a problem with me occasionally smoking some weed? I don't need it in a way any different than you need the occasional glass of wine with dinner.





Edited 8/18/2005 4:03 pm ET ET by pooldiva

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