TRYING ........

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-03-2003
TRYING ........
15
Sat, 12-20-2003 - 10:56am
I've been married for 14 years, three children and a dog. I am very confused and need advice. Three years ago I betrayed my husbands trust. NOT via affair or drugs/drinking. My husband travels A LOT for work and at the time I was a stay at home mom/wife. To fill that "need" that I've missing for years (emotional/physical/mentally) I spent a lot of our money without disclosing it to him. I've been in charge of our finances for years and he never had a reason to doubt where the funds were going. I maxed out every credit cards we had and the ball just kept rolling in a matter of years.

WELL, three years ago I came "clean" about our fiances. He was very hurt, angry and lost my trust. Since then, I have been in thearpy for my "addiction". Through out the years I discovered who I was and what makes me "tick". I understand myself and have been "clean" since. I am now working a fulltime job that I LOVE and have a life outside of my home. My husband and I have been in/out of marriage counseling since. Husband has so much anger inside of him that he drinks often (which alters his moods), is angry often (takes his fustration out on me and kids) and hates spending time with me. ( rather travel for work and do his own thing). When he is angry he blames his moods on something the kids did or I did or someone did. I've been encourageing him to seek counseling for three years to help deal with these emotions that he has ben having. He feels that he is not the one with problem and I need to "deal" with the fall out of what I have done.

WELL, three years was enoough "punishmet" for me. Sort of speak, what else could I do to prove to him that I am better and not a lair. Last month things got really messy. He drinks more and one night lost his temper with the kids and scared them to bits. I stated to him that he needs to seek help or get out. The tension in our marriage and with the kids is not good. Our kids asked that he move out because they hated the feeling the surrounds our household.

He has since gone twice to therapy, but NOW I am no longer happy or satified with my marriage. The last three years I have grown to LOVE who I am and what I have accomplished, the mother the I am and become. That need in my marrage his gone.

What should I do? I have a womderful mother and four sisters that I confine in. Mother thinks I should stay in marriage for the "sake" of the children, my one sister feels that I need more prayer in my life and my other three sisters feel I should move on (as difficult as it might get, we will better off in a year from now - the kids and I)

I know that only I can make that choice and deal with the consequences that may arise.

Any advice or word of thought are greatly welcome.

THANK YOU :)

Pages

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-20-2003
In reply to: msjones67
Sat, 12-20-2003 - 11:48am
Maybe the best thing you can do is separate on a trial basis. If your life and your kids' lives are happier, healthier, free of drunken rage, anger, and mood swings, then perhaps you're all better off without him. At the same time, it could really be the kick in the pants your husband needs to realize that you're not joking: shape up, or get out. You and your children shouldn't have to live in a home full of tension.
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-20-2003
In reply to: msjones67
Sat, 12-20-2003 - 1:23pm
'Mother thinks I should stay in marriage for the "sake" of the children,'

Didn't your kids ask him to leave? Aren't they happier without him in the house?

Your husband isn't happy and is blaming his problems on you.

Do what is best for you and your kids.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-04-2003
In reply to: msjones67
Sat, 12-20-2003 - 4:42pm
I don't see anything wrong with giving yourself a time limit to see if things improve....like going to counseling with him to try to rebuild (I mean in addition to his individual sessions). You've done a lot of growing and MAYBE now he will too.

Reading material to consider:

A Couple's Guide to Communication, John Mordechai Gottman

Getting the Love You Want, Harville Hendrix

Relationship Rescue by Phil McGraw

His Needs, Her Needs by Dr. Willard F. Harley Jr

Divorce Busters by Michelle Weiner-Davis

How One of You Can Bring the Two of You Together: Breakthrough Strategies to Resolve Your Conflicts and Reignite Your Love by Sue Ellen Page

Loving Solutions, Gary Chapman

The 10 Second Kiss, Ellen Kreidman

My best to you.


Carrie

Avatar for autumnleaves22
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: msjones67
Sun, 12-21-2003 - 2:58am
I had a very similar situation but I stayed in it for "the sake of the kids" for 25 years! Bad bad bad decision on my part!!!

I was lonely for many years raising the kids pretty much on my own as he rarely participated. I became lonlier and lonlier and found when I shopped I felt better for awhile. I maxed out credit cards also on house items, things for friends and relatives, and things for myself and the kids and when he finally found out and we went to marriage counseling he wouldn't even try to understand that I did it to feel better for a short time and to make the hurt within me feel better, temporarily. Yes it was irresponsible but I did it to fill a void of sadness which could have just as easily been filled with drugs or alcohol.

So for years, when things got tough, he would always blame it on that I had overspent, blah blah blah. He never took any responsibility for the way things had gone. So I worked my butt off to get the cards paid (he never paid any on them which was Ok as I had maxed them)and put my energy into raising the kids and being a good mom, working, and learning to rely on myself. Oh my ex also started drinking more and more and got worse and worse when he was drunk with blaming everything on me and became verbally abusive.

I don't know why I didn't leave him sooner except that I just wasn't ready until recently. My kids are grown now - 20 and 24 and have asked me why I stayed with their dad so long. The only answer that I could come up with is that I didn't want to be part of the divorce statistics and am a fixer-type person and just cound not give up on this relationship - I thought some day he would change and we would have a great relationship. I had to finally accept that sometimes love just isn't enough, especially when only one spouse is working at it!

But the whole time I was being punished for the spending that I had done also, he could never forget about it and brought it up with anything that he could. It became his excuse for not facing the true reason our marriage was falling apart. So for many years I lived in a loveless marriage that was more like room-mates that have sex now and then. It wasn't a good way to live at all.

So for the past couple of years I have worked on learning to rely on myself and to give myself credit for the worthy and loving person that I am - and to NOT listen to his version of me! I grew and became strong and finally left the bondage of that terrible dysfunctional life. I haven't had a spending problem since.

You said that the need in your marriage is gone and that you are no longer happy or satisfied with your marriage and, "...as difficult as it might get, we will better off in a year from now - the kids and I..." It sounds to me like you have made your decision already! You didn't say we would be better, but we *will* be better a year from now!

To me you sound like you are stronger now and ready to take on a new life and the challenges you are given to live a happier and healthier life, for yourself and for your children. I think you will be fine because you are already used to him being gone and you and the kids are by yourselves alot anyway - and he will have to pay child support so that will help you out financially also. The kids will still see him and he will probably be in a better mood once you two are apart, so that will be better for the kids. Kids are not stupid and know when things are wrong. I was wrong to keep my kids in the dysfunction.

I am so much happier and less stressed now. Sorry this was so long but I felt the need to share my story with you. I am free to be myself and make the decisions which are the most beneficial to me without him constantly trying to belittle me and to have power over me. The new year will be so much more peaceful for me and I hope that it will for you also. Keep us posted and I wish you much clarity as you make your decisions. Be strong and do what you know you need to do for yourself and for the happiness of your children.

Take care,

Sherri

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-03-2003
In reply to: msjones67
Wed, 12-24-2003 - 9:58am
Hello Sherri,

Thank you so much for sharing your experience with me. At times, one feels all alone! My husband and I shared some serious conversations this past weekend and yesterday. I can't help but feel totally responsible for his emotions because I placed them there. He wasn't this way before I did what I did ! My husband has been sharing his feelings (finally) with me and how much I have hurt him and place that mistrust. I am glad that he can do that ( it's to early to tell if things will work out - he only attended two therapy sessions)

I did share with him that I am SO TIRED of being blamed and punished for what I did three years ago. That the tension in our household is not "healthy" for anyone and it's getting draining for EVERYONE involoved. I did express my desire to legally separate and I felt that is what was needed to try to resolve the feelings that we are both having. He was very hurt and stated that HE stuck around while I was getting help and that I should stick with him until he can come to a conclusion o nhis feelings. In a way I agree but I did express the fact that if he would have gotten the help when I begged him to things wounldn't have gotten this far. With him traveling, I already feel seperated and I know I can manage things. Of course I'm amprehensive and scared, but time will heal. I just can't helo but feel guilty. Through out years of therapy, pyscotherapy, etc that the BOTTOM LINE is that I am not responsible for his emotions and moods.

What steps should I take for the separation? Any advice whould be welcomed !!

Sex is far and few between, but the moment after sex takes place - he thinks eveything is fine and the situation is ignored. I don't fell like giving myself to him and when sex is intinated - I fell raped. That is why I don't place myself in those circumstances.

I know I'm rumbling on BUT THANK YOU for letting me !!!!



Happy Holidays,

Pamela

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2003
In reply to: msjones67
Thu, 12-25-2003 - 5:40am

hi msjones - i wanted to write a few words to you. i understand your dilema - altho our stories are different, i think the basis is similar. but I think there is one thing you really need to take care of pronto: you wrote "Last month things got really messy. He drinks more and one night lost his temper with the kids and scared them to bits". ok honey, you sound like a really strong and together person - what are you waiting for? THIS IS NOT GOOD FOR YOUR KIDS. this goes beyond you and him and the guilt feelings etc. THIS is bad. he must leave the house NOW. if you believe he may change, if you feel you owe him "one more chance" - and he IS in therapy which IS a positive sign - then fine. let him continue in his therapy, let him have supervised visitatin with the kids, you and he can take time to date and talk and see if there is a future - but he can't be terrorizing your kids.


it seems to me that you are both getting too caught up in blaming and faults and who owes what - but this is your children's life you are talking about. they did not ask to be caught in the middle.


as far as what will be in the future? who knows. if you were able to overcome your addictions/problems - who knows if he will be able to as well. no matter what happens, he is the father of your children and it would better for all if he went thru therapy. i truly understand what you say about your moving on, and not "needing" him because you changed. i am going thru that myself. i am in the process of getting divorced. and let me tell you that hte FIRST thing i got rid of was my GUILT FEELINGS. that was what was keeping me in a bad marriage.


hugs to you

Avatar for autumnleaves22
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
In reply to: msjones67
Fri, 12-26-2003 - 3:16am
Dear Pamela,

I warn you this is long! I admire you for talking to him about legal separation. I have felt from the beginning of reading your posts that you have made your decision on what you will do, but just have not acted on it yet.

You are your husband's safe harbor and right now he is going to do *anything* to save his sinking ship of a life, including playing the guilt card of - I stayed with you while you went to counseling, so now you should do the same. BALONEY!!! As you said, he didn't do the counseling when you wanted him to do it before and many things have now changed in the dynamics of the relationship.

I'm glad that he is geting counseling, but he needs the counseling for himself and to get a handle on his own life and why he does what he does, not just to please you. Again, a sinking ship rescue effort! Desperate times call for desperate measures and at this point he is going to do many of the things that you have wanted him to do all along, just to lull you into a false sense of security and to make you think that he is doing this because he wants to - when in reality he is only doing it to stop you from leaving him. Despaerate measures!

You said, "...I can't help but feel totally responsible for his emotions because I placed them there..." Why should you feel responsible for his emotions and the way he feels - they are *HIS* reactions not yours! He *chooses* how to act and react! You have just forced his hand and have made him actually talk about your problems instead of letting him get away with avoiding the issues! You're like the Principle in the school office that is making him tell his side of the story!

You said, "...I did share with him that I am SO TIRED of being blamed and punished for what I did three years ago. That the tension in our household is not "healthy" for anyone and it's getting draining for EVERYONE involoved..." I am so proud of you for saying that! I know exactly how you feel on that one! Even when you have changed things and they keep bringing it up - and in my case he used it as *the* reason when *anything* went wrong in our lives, therefore he didn't have to take any responsibility for our real problems!

Feeling apprehensive and scared about separating is totally normal - we are always like that about the unknown. But I sense some real strength in you Pamela, and I feel that you are ready to do what you know needs to be done. This legal separation sounds like a good thing for you, for him, and for the kids, as there is so much unhealthy tension there now.

I didn't have a legal separation, and my children are 20 and 24, so I didn't have to worry about them and the crossfire, so I can't tell you much about separations. But call and ask to have a consultation with a lawyer.

Most lawyers do a free consultation first and you will get a sense of their personality and if you feel good about them. Ask questions about fees they charge and get an estimate of what they think the whole thing may come to. They will be able to give you a step by step run down of what legal separation entails. But go see a couple of lawyers to compare them. Ask your friends and relatives if they have had or know anyone who has been happy with a divorce lawyer - referrals are great.

More than likely, the husband will have to move out of the house and pay temporary child support until you guys decide to file and the divorce is granted - if it comes to that. I believe they will establish temporary visitation also then. My lawyer is letting me pay his fees when I receive my divorce settlement. I had to pay the $1,200. retainer fee up front, but the rest he is waiting on, which I thought was very nice as I didn't have the money up front! Divorce isn't cheap! But it was to my benefit to have a lawyer as I am very happy with my settlement. We actually settled in mediation.

You said, "...I just can't helo but feel guilty. Through out years of therapy, pyscotherapy, etc that the BOTTOM LINE is that I am not responsible for his emotions and moods..." QUIT feeling guilty! Is it wrong for you to want to be happy and have a healthy life for you and your children???

You summed it up totally Pamela when you said that the bottom line is that you are not responsible for his emotions and moods! What he does and how he *chooses* to act are totally *his* choice, not yours!!! That is so great that you do realize this now! In the end, how they act is their own choice of action(s) and not ours! Don't let him make you feel that it is *your* responsibility to help him to *not* act that way! He isn't a kid and acts the way he wants to!

My ex was the same way about sex - one romp and he thought all was forgiven! Wrong!!! And while we were living in the same house, he never quit asking to "get a little" from me! I thought, how many times do I have to say no before you get it through your thick skull! The last time we had sex he acted all nice to me after I had returned from my sister's house, acting all flirty and that and I thought - great, he wants to try to make it work - wrong!

Boy did I learn *NOT* to assume!!! The next day I found out that I had been used totally and I told him how that was one of the lowest things he had ever done to me as he knew before we had sex that he didn't want to work on the relationship - yet pretended he was wanting to make our relationship work, just to get his way with sex. When I calle dhim on his terrible actions, he actually felt bad then, amazingly! Just say no to him now - nobody says you have to do it! You *do* have the choice here!

In the past, whenever we would have sex though - it was the same as you said, he would think everything was Ok because we had had sex! As if sex was the cure-all for everything!

So I guess what I am saying is, to be prepared for his perfectly reconcilatory actions to please you and to get you to feel a false sense of security in that he is changing. Maybe he *is* really chnaging, but do you really feel that he is sincere about this or just putting on a show to keep his ship from sinking? He might convince you and then go back to his same old ways within a few weeks or months when he feels that it is safe to gradually go back to his old ways. But seldom do people change much - they may alter a little bit, but not much usually.

It will be scary at first Pamela, but you can do it. And the kids will adjust. I wish I had left my ex sooner so that my kids didn't have to see me being treated so badly emotionally and for them to know that their parents didn't love eachother anymore and didn't really want to be together. Kids are really smart about these things - much smarter than we give them credit for!

But don't let him pull that guilt bullcrap about you staying with him until he knows or understands his feelings with the counseling. I would do the separation and tell him to continue the counseling and maybe if he can work through his issues, then maybe you will reconsider your life with him. You're more than half way there already as he is gone traveling so much anyway and I also bet you and the children's lives run more smoothly when he is gone rather than when he is there upsetting the family structure.

Hope this helps some. I hope you can make some appointments with the lawyers soon for that free consultation. You can also go on to some of the divorce websites and learn about what legal separation in your state entails. I used to know a bunch of them, but can't think of any right now - just type DIVORCE into your browser and you'll find some. Many of them have messageboards, but will also have some articles that will help you to educate yourself to the legal issues.

I wish you much luck here Pamela. By the way, my divorce was final this Monday, so I am legally a single woman now and it feels wonderful after so many years of bondage to a selfish and uncaring man! Keep us posted hey and good luck...

Sherri

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-05-2003
In reply to: msjones67
Fri, 12-26-2003 - 8:33am

Well, I am not surprised that those on this board are quick to say get out and take the kids with you.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-03-2003
In reply to: msjones67
Tue, 12-30-2003 - 10:37pm
Thank you for your response. Yes, it will be a "kick in the pants" for him. We actually have been talking and taking walks so we are out of the kids "ear reach". We actully have a better living situation when he his out on the road. This has been discussed between my husband and myself. He has gone to two counseling sessions and tomorrow will be his third. WE have been down this road in the past three years. So MAYBE this time around it will help HIM become a better person and father. I have consulted a laywer and will be meeting with her next month. We feel a legal seperation at this time will be best due to the kids and amount of tension in the household. I will be sure to keep you all posted.

HUGS

Pamela

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-03-2003
In reply to: msjones67
Tue, 12-30-2003 - 10:46pm
Thanks for the reply! I have made an appointment with my lawyer for next month (January)

Husband will be attending his third therapy session tomorrow, so I do give him credit for that and that he is trying again. But I am not "fooled" that easily. We've been down this road before and I can only hope this time will work. I did tell husband that a seperation at this time is needed for everyone...he's not happy about it. BUT time will tell and heal. I'll be sure to keep you posted.

Pages