What does this say about my marriage?
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What does this say about my marriage?
| Wed, 03-31-2004 - 3:23am |
Ok, so I need some advice here, and not just critisism, I'm really confused. I've been married 13 years, and have 4 great kids. Our marriage is ok, its been pretty rocky for the last year but on the whole it is a good marriage. I have this friend (male) who I spend an evening each week with while my hubby babysits. Hubby is ok about this - not thrilled but accept it as I've been friends with this guy for 6 years now - our 2 sons were best friends till his ex wife moved away 2 years ago. Last night I went round there, and my friend confesses he has feeling for me, but would never do anything to upset my marriage, but if I want to take things further he would be very happy. I have always got on well with him, and there has always been a connection between us, so after hearing all this last night I told him I felt the same, we kissed and one thing led to another. I came home afterwards to hubby, who doesn't suspect a thing, of course. The thing is, I don't feel at all guilty about what I did, so what does that say about my marriage? I am certain I will sleep with this guy again - it just felt so natural and right. I am also certain I don't want my marriage to break up as I don't want to disrupt the lives of our kids. I'm not certain that I would have stayed married this long if we didn't have the kids. I also still love my husband and don't want to hurt him, but our relationship has never been like it was last night for me with this other guy. I'm really confused.

well, since you asked us to be "nice", i will try, but honestly - what do you really expect people to say to you? this doesn't say so much about your "marriage", but more about YOU and your morals. yes, it would be nice if we could say that there were evidently problems in the marriage etc etc and that is why you "felt" the "need" )or whatever) to do this ---- but its not that simple. from what you are describing - nobody forced you, you had every chance in the world to get out of there at any time --- but YOU CHOSE to do this.
you are a grown up, and if you ask me, you need to start acting like one. you either fix the issues in your marriage and recommit to your husband or you break up with him and move on.
and you may want to spend a minute or two thinking about who this other guy is, and what HIS morals are.
well. of course its < so bad?> if it wasn't - you wouldn't be here asking. it would be nice maybe, (or maybe not) if we could just DO whatever we wanted, whenever we wanted to, and not give a flying s**t about other people..... but that is not the way most of us live.
you are looking for validation for your actions - and you aren't going to find it. it IS wrong. and on many levels. its not *just* the sex, or *just* the fact that you are spending time/energy on this other guy that you should be putting into your marriage - but also the fact that you are lying, you are planning on building a whole "other" life that will be based on lies, the fact that you are in an unhealthy marriage and not doing anything constructive about it, and so on.
you can't have your cake and eat it, so to speak. again- deal with the problems in your marriage FIRST. and again, i am not saying that you should or not get divorced - but you SHOULD get therapy. if your husband won't go, then YOU go because you need individual therapy as well. the fact that you feel no remorse or guilt, the fact that you felt the need to "punish" your husband while you had "escaped" his "jail" for a few minutes --- all these point to the fact that you really need help....
i understand that your husband is controlling, and i understand you feel you need a respite from that. but this is not a healthy way to go about it.
After a long time of being married, and with the responsibility of raising four kids, the passion and excitement of sex and the feeling of being infatuated can easily depart. The fact that you felt more excited with this new guy does not mean that he is better for you, or that you love him more, but that it is the beginning of a rnew elationship, which is often filled with excitement, fantasy and sometimes the thrill of illicit sex. You actually do not really know what it would be like to be married to him. What this says about your marriage is that the two of you have been letting it drag. You probably have not been giving real attention or quality time to one another. Perhaps you have taken one another for granted. This is usual, but it is also dangerous, as when a marriage is left to drift, all kinds of other consequences can arise. As you have 4 children together, I strongly recommend that you at least try to work on your marriage, before taking off with someone else. Although your husband does not presently know what's going on, if your affair continues, he will inevitably feel the changes in you, feel that part of you has left (as it will have), and sooner or later your marriage will feel the consequences, (as will your children). You will also, undoubtedly feel better about yourself if you give your marriage a chance and are honest about what is really going on, and why you feel driven into someone else's arms. Clearly there are a lot of feelings you've been having that you have not been aware of. Having an affair can be starting a fire that burns many - rather than simply giving you the warmth and excitement you feel the lack of. Take care.
It's A New Day With Dr Shoshanna - Wed. 2-3 EST.
I too had a "friend" and he was truly a friend, and the feelings turned. I knew my marriage was bad and had tried to get out ten years before. My ex suffers from covert depression. Unless you are living with it, you wouldn't even know. I sought counseling, and after three years asked for a divorce. I did get together with the "friend" and we have been together for 6 years. We have been in couples counseling for the past year, in preperation of getting married. We are happy, normal and extremely thankful to be where we are now.
But it was important to not act on it, until I settled the situation in my marriage, one way or the other. That is what you need to do. Alot of self examination and prioritizing.
Pam
Pam
The choices we make in thought, word and deed inevitably return to us in kind.
Two articles for you to consider:
Infidelity reaches beyond having sex:
Emotional intimacy, virtual affairs take hold in workplace
By Karen S. Peterson
USA TODAY
Cybersex and so-called virtual affairs on the Internet are all the buzz among professionals who study spouses who stray.
But the truly fertile ground for dangerous emotional attachments outside marriages is much more conventional: the workplace. As more employees labor longer hours together, close friendships increasingly are taken for granted. And as more women move into professions once dominated by men, there are greater temptations for both sexes.
There is a new ''crisis of infidelity'' breeding in the workplace, says Baltimore psychologist and marital researcher Shirley Glass. Often it does not involve sexual thrill seekers, but ''good people,'' peers who are in good marriages.
''The new infidelity is between people who unwittingly form deep, passionate connections before realizing that they've crossed the line from platonic friendship into romantic love,'' Glass says.
Glass' 25 years of research on ''extramarital attachments'' adds to a growing understanding of just what constitutes infidelity and why it happens.
She believes affairs do not have to include sex. ''In the new infidelity, affairs do not have to be sexual. Sometimes the greatest betrayals happen without touching. Infidelity is any emotional or sexual intimacy that violates trust.''
This revised concept of an affair is embraced by increasing numbers of Glass' colleagues. People are ''incredibly devastated by their partner's emotional affair,'' says Peggy Vaughan, who has researched infidelity for 20 years. ''They separate over it, divorce over it, this breaking of a trust, a bond.'' The third edition of Vaughan's The Monogamy Myth will be released this month.
A platonic friendship, such as those that grow at work, edges into an emotional affair when three elements are present, Glass says:
* Emotional intimacy. Transgressors share more of their ''inner self, frustrations and triumphs than with their spouses. They are on a slippery slope when they begin sharing the dissatisfaction with their marriage with a co-worker.''
* Secrecy and deception. ''They neglect to say, 'We meet every morning for coffee.' Once the lying starts, the intimacy shifts farther away from the marriage.''
* Sexual chemistry. Even though the two may not act on the chemistry, there is at least an unacknowledged sexual attraction.
Glass sums up her research and that of others in Not ''Just Friends'': Protect Your Relationship from Infidelity and Heal the Trauma of Betrayal (Free Press, $24), now arriving in bookstores.
''This is the essence of the new crisis of infidelity: friendships, work relationships and Internet liaisons have become the latest threat to marriages,'' Glass says.
Affairs that take place in chat rooms on the Internet are classic examples of emotional infidelity.
How many have affairs, either emotional or sexual, is difficult to gauge. After reviewing 25 studies, Glass believes 25% of wives and 44% of husbands have had extramarital intercourse.
About two-thirds of the 350 couples she has treated include one or both partners who have had some type of intense affair, sexual or emotional. The most threatening to marriages combine both, she says. Sixty-two percent of the unfaithful men and 46% of the women met their illicit partner through work.
Researchers identify many factors contributing to infidelity. Proximity at the office is key for Glass. ''My research and the research of others point to opportunity as a primary factor. . . . Attractions are a fact of life when men and women work side by side.''
Many other risk factors may be in play. They include:
* Family patterns. Unfaithful parents tend to produce sons who betray their wives and daughters who either accept affairs as normal or are unfaithful themselves, Glass says.
* Biochemical cravings. Changes in brain chemicals during an affair can create a ''high that becomes almost addictive,'' says Atlanta psychiatrist Frank Pittman, author of Private Lies: Infidelity and the Betrayal of Intimacy.
Bonnie Eaker-Weil, author of Adultery: The Forgivable Sin, says the biological need for connection can result from ''severe stress, loss or separation'' that often can be traced back to childhood.
* Internet temptations. Increasing numbers of cyber-affairs are breaking up stable marriages, says psychologist Kimberly Young, author of Tangled in the Web: Understanding Cybersex From Fantasy to Addiction. She cites the anonymity and convenience of the Internet, as well as the escape it provides from the stresses of everyday life.
* Increasing premarital sex. The more premarital sexual activity, the greater the chance of an extramarital affair, Glass says. ''Because girls are more sexually active at younger ages than they used to be, married women are not nearly as inhibited about crossing the line.''
* Child-centered marriages. Parents with dual careers and limited time ''often collude to give what time they have to the children. Their bond is built on co-parenting, and they don't make time for themselves,'' Glass says. Stereotypically, the husband finds somebody at work to share his adult interests.
Some affairs happen, Glass says, ''because people have certain beliefs they think will protect them. They believe if they love their spouse and have a good marriage, they don't have to worry. They don't exert the caution that might be necessary or create the boundaries to make their marriages safe.''
Basically monogamous partners drawn to interesting colleagues at work find themselves in ''great internal conflict.'' Her best advice: ''The more attractive we find somebody, the more careful we have to be.''
How to keep temptation at arm's length
There is no such thing as an affair-proof marriage. But couples who want to protect their unions from infidelity can be mindful of the dangers. To keep a marriage healthy:
* Stay honest with your partner. ''Honesty is the trump card for preventing affairs,'' says Peggy Vaughan, who has studied affairs for more than two decades. Her Web site is dearpeggy.com. ''Make a commitment to sharing your attractions and temptations.'' That helps to avoid acting on them. Dishonesty and deception cause affairs to flourish, Vaughan says.
* Monitor your marriage. ''Realize if there is something missing,'' says psychologist Kimberly Young of St. Bonaventure University in southwest New York state. ''Be willing to try to fix it.'' Assess whether needs are being met.
* Stay alert for temptations. ''Be very careful of getting involved in the first place,'' Young says. ''Know the dangers. You can be drawn to an affair as to a drug. And once you are past a certain point of emotional connection, it is very hard to go into reverse.''
* Don't flirt. ''That is how affairs start,'' says Bonnie Eaker Weil, whose Web site, www.makeupdontbreakup .com, features tips for preventing infidelity. ''Flirting is not part of an innocent friendship. If you think there might be a problem with someone you flirt with, there probably is a problem.''
* Recognize that work can be a danger zone. ''Don't lunch or take private coffee breaks with the same person all the time,'' psychologist Shirley Glass says.
* Beware of the lure of the Internet. ''Emotional affairs develop quickly, in maybe a few days or weeks online, where it might take a year at the office,'' Young says. ''There is safety behind the computer screen.''
* Keep old flames from reigniting. ''If you value your marriage, think twice about having lunch with one,'' Glass says. Invite your partner along.
* Value the intimacy of your marriage. ''Reveal as much of yourself to one another as possible,'' Atlanta psychiatrist Frank Pittman says. ''You will find it less necessary to form an intimate friendship with someone else.''
* Make sure your social network supports marriage. ''Surround yourself with happily married friends who don't believe in fooling around,'' Glass says.
Question: I’m 49 years old, currently single, and having an affair with a married man. He’s 53 and neither of us has ever done such a thing in the past. I don’t believe he has any divorce plans and I’m not looking for him to. And I am ethically opposed to such marital betrayal. Seems to me this will eventually end with emotional pain — mine, his, maybe hers. Why, in your opinion, are two intelligent people taking such a risk? I just don’t seem to have the resolve to stop this.
Answer: Have you ever had a moment you just wanted to freeze and keep forever? Maybe it was a great conversation, a meal, a sunset, or some moment of bliss that you never wanted to end. In the back of your mind, you knew it would be gone soon. Maybe you went so far as to try and preserve it even though you knew that was impossible. But change is the most inevitable thing we face — everything changes.
It sounds to me like you’re trying to preserve this relationship against all odds. And, in so doing, you shed light on some of the most compelling reasons that people have affairs.
THE COCAINE OF ROMANCE
An affair is a relationship out of space and out of time. Although it is bound to end (everything does), an affair holds an implicit denial that it is vulnerable to the same forces as all other normal relationships.
Affairs are the cocaine of romance, always promising that initial rush and trying to eternally preserve the infatuation stage. Add to that the intrigue, secrecy and ever-present risk of getting caught, and you have a very powerful aphrodisiac. Maybe that is why infidelity is so common. Studies have found that approximately 25 percent to 37 percent of married men and 15 percent to 20 percent of married woman admit to having had extramarital sex at least once. It is likely that these numbers are actually much higher since those who engage in these dalliances are, by definition, accustomed to concealing the truth.
In addition to getting hooked on the juice of hormones, endorphins and adrenaline, we find several other themes that make affairs so compelling:
Control. No one wants to be the yo-yo; everyone wants to be the string. The closer someone is to you, the less control you have since true intimacy requires surrender. But an affair keeps the string in your hand because it is inherently limited. Even though you both are doing things you probably don’t want to do, when it comes to the big enchilada — namely commitment — you are safe.
Fear of intimacy. This is the fear of being truly seen. Affairs keep people stuck in the “early relationship” stage where everyone is on their best behavior, says please and thank you, and shaves the appropriate parts of their respective bodies.
Putting this kind of energy into being on your best behavior is all well and good, but not when it’s in the service of hiding your true self. Many people believe there are parts of themselves so unacceptable that to have them seen will inevitably result in them being rejected. Their solution: don’t ever relax, hope, or truly get involved with another person.
In addition to keeping you at a “safe distance,” an affair gives you the extra bonus of keeping your life intact so that when you are inevitably dumped, you haven’t lost anything. It’s like flying a flight simulator — you get all the thrills and none of the risk. Great solution, if only it was real.
Emotional claustrophobia. Some people feel that settling down with another person confines them too much. So affairs are great because there’s none of that forever stuff and there is always a way out.
Committed relationships can unleash a torrent of doubt. People wonder, “Is this it? Is this the person I’m going to spend the rest of my life with, who I’m going to retire with, who I’m going to die with?”
A committed relationship can also bring up all kinds of other unpleasant questions, such as, “Would I have been happier with my high school sweetheart?” or “I don’t see rockets — is this all love is?” or “Am I now on a collision course with retirement and death?”
An affair is like a fountain of youth. It encourages you to believe that your options are still open, more love might still happen, and you are still young and living a life of continuous adventure. By the way, if this doesn’t do it for you, heroin provides a similar effect.
Fear of success. This one is especially true for women. Face it, if you were involved with an available man he might just love you back and there would be no inherent reason for the relationship not to work out. You would get what you probably don’t feel that you deserve: unadulterated love. But with an affair, no matter how wondrous it feels, it is inherently flawed and limited.
FACING THE INEVITABLE END
Instead of obsessing about how you know you should stop the affair, think about what it is you are avoiding by staying in it. By continuing the affair, you’re missing out on a real relationship that is vulnerable to all the vicissitudes of time and place. In a real relationship, you could be with someone forever, but at times may not wish to be with him for another day. You seem to wonder whether you should or even can end this affair. But if you were truly happy, you would be writing love letters instead of SOS e-mails.
Stop deceiving yourself — try as you might to preserve it, the affair, like everything else, will end one way or the other. And when it does, there will be plenty of emotional pain to go round, as you point out. Definitely his, definitely hers, and definitely yours. What you don’t directly say in your letter is that the violation of your own morals is already causing you anguish, so it’s too late to prevent pain. What you still have a choice about is how bad the pain will be. (Hint — the longer the affair goes on, the worse it will hurt when it ends.)
The kicker about affairs is that they are based on deception and the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. If he can lie to his wife, he can lie to you. And if you can deceive others, you can deceive yourself.
So take a deep breath, face the answer you knew before you wrote your letter, and take your chances with real love. It won’t last forever, but if you’re lucky it will last a lifetime.
David Marcus, Ph.D., of the San Jose Marital and Sexuality Centre.
Carrie
The fact that you are considering an affair says that something is clearly not "there" for you in your marriage and it's a little rough, to answer your question. It doesn't say that it can't be worked out or that your husband is a bad person. For a lot of reasons, you've lost the motivation to keep the magic up with your husband. You're feeling lonely without that bond you two used to share and have found an outlet for that... with your friend. That's all it says about your marriage. Probably nothing you didn't already know.
As for the relationship with your friend, you need time to think about what you are doing. Don't do anything else yet. This is a very critical time for you and your actions (whatever they may be) will greatly affect you, both of the men and your four children. You have a lot of weight on your shoulders and that deserves the time to think this through thoroughly before you do anything.
It all boils down to two things, what you want and what is best for everyone. You can't have an affair without everything blowing up in your face. It just doesn't work that way. If you want to avoid as much pain and difficulty as possible, put your feelings aside for your friend until you have figured out if you want to give your marriage one last shot before you call it quits. You need to decide if you would be leaving your husband if this other man wasn't in the picture. Are you wanting to date him because he's him or because he's not your husband?
My advice is to figure out where your head is before you do anything. I would strongly encourage you to try with your husband one more time. If you're still not happy, then you are doing what is best by divorcing and moving on. Then maybe you should consider your friend as a possibilty. Just remember that an affair wouldn't be fair to you, your husband or your friend. You need to make up your mind if yuo don't want to hurt anyone any more than necessary.
Good luck.