Doesn't get it

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2004
Doesn't get it
11
Fri, 04-02-2004 - 9:46am
This is a strange scenario, but it is distressful nonetheless. My husband is a very caring person, and basically a good guy. However, I think he is horribly immature, and irresponsible, and when confronted with it, he just says that he can not handle it, or, he does not understand the situation.

I am just mortified, because the things we discuss, we've been discussing for YEARS!!! He admits that he does not understand verbage. He is technical person, and he can only understand things that are technical. When I talk to him, and when other people talk to him, he admits that his mind goes blank, and he does not understand. I can see when it happens. His eyes will get wide, and he will say something totally unappropriate and stupid, and you are wondering who he is talking to. But at the same time, he wants to help. But when he does not follow through, he does not understand why I get upset.

For example, I have my own CPA firm, and certain clients require delivery of their documents. For the clients with high fees, I do not trust the regular delivery people to do it, so my husband volunteered. I knew it was very important, so I asked him, "are you sure you can do this? this is very important" I was up all night trying to complete it, and called my husband several times that day to make sure he understood, and could still complete the task. He was very nonchalant about it, and said" yes, everything is fine, I have it covered"

Then, at 6:00 that night, I get a screaming phone call from the client, as to why his documents were never delivered. I was really dumbfounded. Later, when I confronted my husband, he had every stupid excuse in the book as to why he did not complete the task.

My response was, "what were you thinking!!!! If you could not do it, you should have picked up the phone, and called me. At least then, i could've made other arrangements, or gave the client a heads up!! But you did nothing!!" I worked really hard with this client, and the simplest thing was to deliver the documents.

To me, this is common sense, but then my husband response with stupid comments like, "well, I did not know it was that important", and "I do not understand business situations" And I say things like, how could we be living in the same house with me, and you say that??????? I've been working day and night on this, and I called you several times to confirm, where are getting the that it was not important???????"

This was just one of many things, and with this I literally snapped. He does not follow through on important things, like, when he baby sat, he left my son alone, and I got a call from the police that he was wondering the streets. Again, when I confronted my husband, he just said he forgot, and could not do two things at once.

I am angry at myself for marrying him. I saw these traits early on, and I broke up with him several times, even called off the wedding at one point. I did not follow through with the wedding being called off, and now I am so full of anger, I do not know what to do.

The incident yesterday was the last straw, and I was seething. I did not come home from work, I went straight to the gym. I refused to look at my husband, because I knew I would snap. It did not help that I've been working 100 hour weeks, non stop, despite the fact that I hired help this tax season, it created more work for me, since I had to redo everything.

When finally went up to the bedroom, and asked him again, what happened, he came up with all these stupid answers and scenarios as to what he thought would be OK. I got so angry, I started to punch the pillows and the mattress, and I was screaming. It seems as though he deliberately sabotages my efforts, because I do not understand any other explanation. He of course, denies that he hurts me on purpose, and that he did not know he was hurting me.

This was 4 years of anger pint up, and I just exploded. He just curled up in a little ball crying. I left the house.

The next day when we talked, he expressed how frightened he was of me last night, and how he has never been that scared before in his entire life. He thought I was going to hit him, even though I was just hitting the pillows getting my frustration out. it is only when he is scared, that I see any emotion. (and sex of course)

He does not seem to have any passion for anything, except sports, so I guess he can not imagine or appreciate the work that goes into things, and the devastation that goes along with stupid things ruining the hard work. I am not just talking about this incident. In fact, this incident is the most tamest of all. I am also talking about the past. Like during a custody trial, he inadvertently, gives the otherside information, and did things that hurt our case, all under the guise that he did not understand.

I know that he is not being malicious on purpose, but the results are the same. I am angry, resentful, that he is a moron, and I am sorry that we married. I am mad at myself for not calling off the wedding, and just finding a partner who is more mature and has some sence. It is not all bad though, but I feel like I settled.

I especially feel bad, since he has a good relationship with my son, he adopted him, but I know I can not go on like this. This is my second marriage. I feel horrible and stupid for getting into this predicament.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 08-04-2003
Fri, 04-02-2004 - 12:12pm
So you aren't dealing with simple rebellion (she wants it done, so I'll drag my feet) but he really doesn't understand directions, can't do more than one thing at a time - has he had any psych testing done? Maybe it's time. If nothing counseling is in order, let the counselor recommend the right type of test and it will give you a safe place to vent your emotions.

My best to you.


Carrie

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-11-2004
Fri, 04-02-2004 - 2:30pm
I agree. By your posting it sounds as though his problems are more psychological and mental than deliberate. I hate to ask this but are you sure you LOVE him? You said “I am angry at myself for marrying him. I saw these traits early on, and I broke up with him several times, even called off the wedding at one point. I did not follow through with the wedding being called off, and now I am so full of anger, I do not know what to do. “ You said you resent marrying him but feel that you are settled. It sounds to me that you are only with him because you feel you have to be, that your obligated to be. I personally believe that if you truly love him you would’ve seen that these traits of his seem to need medical attention from the BEGINNING instead of blowing up at him every time he does something wrong. (I’m alarmed myself at your seeming lack of concern and apparent anger toward him). I also think that if you love him you wouldn’t consider

him a moron under these circumstances, again, you would’ve seen that these traits seem to need medical attention-not being called a moron. The 1st flag (that you mentioned to us anyway) should’ve been when he “forgot” he was babysitting your son and was found wandering the streets. Anyone can see that a “healthy” person would not do a thing like that. To me it’s as if you’re looking at all of these things he does just on the surface instead of digging deeper to find the root of what is causing this behavior. You (claim to) love this man and your married to him can’t you see that there is a pattern? I mean you said this has been going on for 4 years at least. The 2nd flag should’ve been when he even ADMITTED that he can not handle it and that he does not understand certain situations. It’s almost as if he has a chemical imbalance or something of the sort. I have a dear friend who was acting the same way and as she got older (in other words- the longer it went untreated) the worse she got. I convinced her to see a doctor (because I noticed these things and was CONCERNED for her well-being) even though she HONESTLY thought nothing was wrong. She didn’t see how careless and apathetic she had become. Now she is on medications that help her to concentrate and she is a completely different person. I understand that you DO work hard (100 hrs a week at your own CPA firm...I couldn’t imagine what you must go through!!) And you must me mentally and emotionally drained but don’t take it out on him. It’s easy to just get used to someone’s behavior and accept them “for who/what they are” especially in your position. Just if you do love him-have him checked out, don’t take it out on him. And after he is checked out take a nice LONG vacation and relax-unwind. You sounded tense even with just your words in your posting. You might even consider anger management counseling while he is getting treated for whatever seems to be bothering him. Considering your resentment, marriage counseling couldn’t hurt either. Now with ALL THAT said (I know it was long-sorry) if I happen to be wrong on this and there is NOTHING MEDICALLY causing him to be this careless (and probably if you find that you don’t love him and don’t want to stick out counseling with him to still try and sort it out for his well-being and the sake of marriage) then get the heck outta dodge cause he’s a danger to your son (babysitting incident) and to your job (important-time sensitive material he never delivered). I do wish you the best of luck and let us know how it all turns out, okay??? :-)

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 04-02-2004 - 2:40pm
Have you considered the fact that there are other "realities" involved here.

This guy sounds like he has a low IQ...meaning he has a lot of trouble with "reasoning patterns and follow thrus and prioritizations".

I know what someone means when they say "I don't understand why this is like this?" And you can see precisely what they did that caused it to be like this. I used to be like him - I couldn't figure out why life didn't work like I thought it should, and so on and so forth...and I kept expecting other people and life to change....not me. But, I'm not someone with a low IQ....I'm someone that as an addictive personality, that had a very sheltered upbringing and who was "enabled" and encouraged to be socally inept, lacking in self-awareness and responsibility. But what your husband is doing...I never did that.

I never left babies unattended, or failed to do what I had promised to do....your husband sounds like he has the reasoning ability of about a 14 year old - at best. Meaning he can't really understand the intricasies in life's situations, and he can't think thru to potential consequences - when he's deciding what action to take.

Has the guy ever been given an IQ test, a "common sense" test, has he ever been psychologically evaluated for bipolar, or learning disorders, ADD, ADHD or borderline personality disorder?

Or has he relied on his good looks and "warm heart" to get him thru, and people like you keep coming into his life expecting because he "looks so great and he promises so much" that he'll surely live up to it and you put everything you have on the line with him..he fails, you react, he retreats..adn the cycle just continues.

I mean seriously, you're talking to him in your post as if he's about 8...."can you hanlde this, are you sure you can do this, are you certain you understand what it is I want done and what you're agreeing to do" and he's responding like he's 8...he knows what you want to hear, he knows that he wants to do this (right now he does, later maybe not), so he tell syou what he really means at the time, doesn't follow thru and then when consequences result - like an 8 year old in this siutation, he can't understand waht the big deal is, he didn't deliver the papers, so waht...lots of stuff he wants or expects an that people promise doesn't materialize (typical of immature thinking) so what's the big deal that he didn't do what he promised - deliver the papers.


Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2004
Fri, 04-02-2004 - 3:06pm
As obvious as it is to everyone, I never considered that he needed "medical attention" but now I see that is what is in order. I do not have a clue how to bring this up to him. I suspect that he already knows he has a problem, but we do not know where to start. It is not like he denies what I am telling him, although he does have trouble understanding the ramifications when I blow up. I did not really recognize my anger until that last incident, that a definite change is in order. I just need to figure out what exactly to do. Call a counselor, explain my predicament, and will they lead me in the right direction? I do not know why but I actually feel better.

Thanks,

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 04-02-2004 - 3:21pm
I hope you hear this objectively.

YOU need a counselor. About that, there is no doubt. That you could date osmeone for four years, just ambling along liking the feelings that the situations inspire when all is well, while disregarding the negative consequences of his actions because they're not as impactive to you as in marriage (legal liability/cohabitative impact) - you need counseling to get more practical, realistic, to learn to review patterns in your life, and how to reprogram your thinking patterns and emotional associations.

But him.....he does not need counseling so much at this point as he needs a medical Ph.D. evaluation as to what his problem is. Yes, it is true..he might have lived a sheltered and "non-reality based existence" - so that he really doesn't reason logically at the adult level and just needs to be taught how to do it. But, it is more likely than not true that he's got a medical condition that requires medication prior to any "counseling" being able to be of benefit to him.

Because very easily you could get him in counseling and he would do his "coping mechanisms" for quite some time prior to the counselor establishing that the medicl aspect needs review prior to any more "thinking and feelings" being discussed and reviewed.

Think of this guy as being unable to read English...and he's hidden that very well. HE's passed drivers tests, and he's fooled employers, and he's gotten by with learning to read inflections, body language, and by "getting the general message" and responding as he thinks he should - in order to meet his goals, needs, priorities.

So, taking a person to a counselor that doesn't speak english but is fluent in body language, inflection, and coping is NOT going to reveal to you what the problem is. In fact, it could further hide the problem.

Get him to a medical doctor that can make a diagnosis. He honestly sounds schizo or bi-polar -which is a condition that requires medication at all times, it requires supervision and understanding it all times, and it requires alot of life adjustments on the parts of hte partners of these people.

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2004
Fri, 04-02-2004 - 3:36pm
I appreciate your response, and this sounds interesting, but I am afraid I do not understand. Could you explain this?

just ambling along liking the feelings that the situations inspire when all is well, while disregarding the negative consequences of his actions because they're not as impactive to you as in marriage (legal liability/cohabitative impact) - you need counseling to get more practical, realistic, to learn to review patterns in your life, and how to reprogram your thinking patterns and emotional associations.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 04-02-2004 - 4:07pm
Okay, this will be lengthy.

There's one of two things that people "focus on primarily".

They're either emotionally driven - they consider thier feelings to be more important than goals, they often consider their feelings goals, facts, or calls to action. They use their feelings to determine what to do in situations while they're trying to change the situation itself, or obtain new results by changing the situation.

That's your "emotionally driven/factually dismissive/non-goal oriented" type of person.

There's your "factually assessing/goal oriented/emotionally aware" type of person.

Who assess facts at all times in all situations, who have realistic, practical and true goals to reach, and those people at all times are resonding to or taking actions in order to "reach their goals as per the options within the situation they're now in based on the facts." Those people know that feelings are a "result" of situations but don't have to be acted on - and that their feelings will change when the situation changes.

You're "emotionally driven/factually dismissive/non-goal oriented"...before you object based on your profession, and your responsibilities.....people CAN AND DO compartmentalize their lives.

It's not uncommon to find people that are very good at what they do -responsible, sensible, common sensensible, communicative in professional dealings...and when they get into the "relationship realm" they're about 14 years ago - emotionally driven, they just know this person makes them feel good, which means they should stay with them, and this is just a great relationship because of how it makes me feel.

You're extremley emtionally driven/factually dismissive in your personal life - at least where it comes to relationships. That evident by dating someone 4 years and never sstanding back and factually assessing their life as it is...and realistically projecting how thier values that justify their actions would impact your future by cohabitation and commitment.

In relationships, succinctly put - you only see what you want to see based on how you feel. You want to 'feel good' about the relationship and yourself via it - so you ignore and dismiss all the "reality based facts" regarding your partner and the relationship.

If you question that...realize that no self-aware, self-responsible, goal oriented, successful, secure, and happy woman would want "a child for a partner". But that's precisely what you've had.

He gives the wide stares, doesn't know what is going on - you have to cover and shuffle for him, he doesn't interact with you on professional and personally "adult" levels and you're fine with that becuase "he has a great relationship with your son"....you two enjoy one another when you're doing things that "he can do" - but you're ignoring the fact that really he does nothing mature, adult, or goal focused and life-experience seeking unless you force, prod, or assist him in it. And you've been content with that "disparity of maturity, focus, responsibility, success" in conventional ways in orde r to "have a relationship".

I know people have brought this to your attention...you postponed the wedding, you had doubts, you had people telling you that "he's not right, and not right for you".


But, because you had an investment in him of time and social and personal intertwining, and because you didn't want to be "wrong" about this "being so right', and because you were sure that your brains, brawn, talent, intelligence, responsibility, and maturity would compensate for his lack thereof - you went ahead and got married anyway.

And I guarantee you that you're as mad as I was...when i married husband #3....having done precisely what you've done. I ignored, dismissed, disregarded, and excused all the "negative"....because it 'felt" so good at times, I was simply working to reach more "good feelings" sure that they would result by staying with him.

We lived together for two years....and the week after we got married I was screaming at him 'this and you are the biggest mistake I ever made" (I was so wwrong, he was just "another' mistake I had made by refusing to learn from past mistakes!) And he was screaming back...but he had something rational to say that I actually heard, because he was really "listening" to me...and what I was never doing was "listening" to him when he kept dragging his feet about getting married.

I'll never forget it...he screamed "I told you and told you that I wasn't going to change, and that things wouldn't change and you wanted to get married so I did. But I'm not going to work, and I'm not going to do all this stuff that you think is part of being married, I didn't do it before, I'm not now and if you think marriage is going to change me you have another thing coming." My ex was NOT mentally or emotionally challenged...he was just totally completely and without reservation or hesitation LAZY and IRRESPONSIBLE!

But, I refused to acknowledge it pre-marriage...and post-marriage when I was so sure that "aisle/altar/hymn" meant "I'll alter him" and that didnt work - everything that I had repressed that I was upset, angry, and fearful about for the last two years came spilled out - it couldn't help it. I'd put off being mad to get the commitment, without realizing I thought commitment would change him. I now knew it wouldn't - I was so mad at having made this choice, I kept saying he'd tricked me but I knew it wasn't true....I'd marrid him just as he was, and he was remaining as he was...and that was the end of that.

Your guy honestly sounds mentally slow.....or that he's bipolar or schizophrenic, perhaps even manic depressive although I think you'd know that if he was.

My point is that you ignored everyting you didn't like and how that made you feel, you never reviewed factually patterns and dynamics - you simply looked at each situation and either dismissed and ignored the realities and feelings surrounding it...or you reveled in them if they were good adn sought more of them by trying to control life's situation so that he wouldn't fail you but please you - and thus you'd e "happy all the time".

That's YOU being totally codependently dysfunctional and unrealistic....that's NOT his problem or fault. Just like the anger I felt at #3 for not changing when he'd never promised to was unrealistic and inappropriate - it didn't mean it wasn't there, it's just that if I'd been being realistic and objective - I'd have known he wasn't going to change, and I'd have decided on whether to pursue marriage based on my "liking it how it is" vs. "pursuing marriage thinking marriage would change him and it".

Does that makes sense?

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com


iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2004
Sat, 04-03-2004 - 8:23am
Yes, that does make sense. But I think my husband is on the other end of the spectrum. He is actually a genious, and he thrives on things when it comes to math and science. He designed and built our house that we live in, and has accomplished many great things.

And on another note, practical and emotional, we usually get along together so well. We dated for about a year, and we've been married for three. Everyone thought he was perfect for me, and what really got me mad, was because I was single with a child, they some how thought that HE was lowering HIS standards!!The evidence of his immaturity came accross as most men's fears of being an instant father. There were no red flags until we were engaged, and he started to act strange. I called it off, because I told him he obviously was not ready, and that would be OK. But I guess he got scared when I wanted to call it off, and we went ahead and married.

This is the happiest I've been ever, and in most cases, I consider myself lucky. After three years, of marriage, we've had two serious incidents that have left me very angry. Like the baby sitting thing is so out of character, I do not understand, and then the whole documents thing. In most cases, he seems to be invested and aware, and then, every once in a blue moon, he'll do something totally bizarre.

My son has never thrived more in his entire life, and I can attribute that to my husband.

That is why so many of my friends say how lucky I am, and how ahead of most married couples we are. But these incidents confuse the heck out of me!! And the regretting marrying him, was something I really said out of anger, which is why I said it to the message boards, and not to him.

He does realize that on a social level, he is not quick to pick up on things. Because of the severity of some of these incidents, I am going to try to get him to get some sort of evaluation. He seems to want to change, and have these things not happen, but he does not know how. And he responds with things like," I just can not do that" and "I am so sorry I let you down. "

I do understand what you are saying. Some of it applies, and some of it doesn't. It has been very helpful nonetheless. It is not everyday and to everyone, that you can express these intense feelings. I actually feel guilty for having the thoughts I have, even though I know I shouldn't.

I understand everything you are saying, about investment in a relationship, and not wanting to let it go. That happened to me in my first marriage, and I take full responsibiity for that. But this one, I was ready to walk away, since he got cold feet, after he moved in, and bought the ring, and then wanted to put off the wedding for years. I agreed with him in putting off the wedding, but I asked that he take his ring back, and move out. That is what I think of, when he does such things that are immature. But I was ready to walk away.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 04-05-2004 - 3:24pm
I´m inclined to agree with the other poster. Your hubby has a wee little proble upstairs, and not necessarily low IQ, it could be a dozen other things. Your choices are limited.

It´s either going to the doc and getting a diagnosis, or continue to live as you do now, wondering what disaster is going to happen next, and hoping it won´t be too bad.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 04-05-2004 - 3:40pm
There are a great many personalities disorders that people overlook in those that are talented,well-educated, or extremely adept.

It's not uncommon for the more knowledgeable and intelligent and more "learning friendly" you are to be very astute in areas that involve learning or specific knowledge or ability -and ot be totally socially inept in every other capacity.

Just as like "Rainman" - who could add, subtract, multiply and divide huge numbers without any calculations (that was an accurate portrayal of that disease) he was totally incapable of socially adept behavior that would allow him to succeed.

Erin

quickblade14@hotmail.com

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