I feel so foolish!

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-01-2001
I feel so foolish!
9
Thu, 02-24-2005 - 12:20pm

We had our child support settlement meeting today.
I was hoping for a nice, easy agreement; just get it over and done with. H and I had talked about it a few times and thought we were coming in with certain expectations.

I was so wrong! H walked in with a lawyer, who immediately started talking to me and telling me what was going to happen and what he thought we should do. Who is he to tell me what I should do when he is there representing H?
Anyway, they immediately announce that they dispute spousal support because I left and I am abandoning the household. H and I had TALKED about that! Then they start lying about how much time dd is going to be with H and how he should have to pay less because she will be with him 42% of the time. I don't know where they got that number, 2 days out of the week is NOT 42%!
He then misleads the counselor about how much money he makes. He currently gets a huge bonus and a shift differential, but tells them he will be switching shifts and losing 10%. He lets them calculate a new salary with 10% less, based on his base salary (assuming his base will go down), when in fact, he just makes the differential on TOP of his base. Of course I didn't have anything to back this up, so I couldn't do anything about it. And who knows if he will actually switch shifts, they have been telling him this for over a year and it hasn't happened.
He was being nitpicky and backhanded, bringing up all these tiny issues, that he and I had discussed before. I clearly cannot trust anything he says.

Anyway, I was very upset and apparently they had 2 other issues that they wanted to bring to the table but decided to hold off. I am scared to think about what they might be.

Well, I hope this makes sense, I am very upset, and I am in a rush to go pick up dd from daycare (big storm, so they are closing).
Thanks for listening!

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 02-24-2005 - 12:31pm
That sounds just awful! Like something from a scary movie. You are so right to back away and trust NOTHING he tells you from today on. Is someone going to subpena his payroll records and personnel file? If the child support office will not do that for you, then you need a lawyer. Heck, you should probably get the lawyer anyway. This is no time to be penny wise and dollar foolish, right?
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Thu, 02-24-2005 - 1:08pm

I can't believe your daycare is already closing, the snow just started!!!

I have two bits of advice. The first is don't go to those things without your attorney. Did you retain one? I know you had an appt with one at one point. Your attorney is your protection for when things like this happen. Going without is like walking in the snow with barefeet - you might not get frost bite but you don't want to take that chance.

The second is you need to have a discussion with your STBX. Let him know there are two ways to get divorced - the easy way and the hard way - and you want to know if he's choosing the hard way now because if he's going to make it hard, then you are going to make it hard, that is just how it is. You either both make it easy, or you don't.

Definition of the easy way
You talk, you come up with reasonable and fair agreements on your own and you stick to them. You use your attorneys to provide legal advice but you and your STBX make the final decisions on custody and property settlement matters. When you do agree on something, you don't finalize it, it's a temporary agreement. You take your decision to the attorney and get legal advice on whether, in their legal opinion, what you are agreeing to makes sense and is what you'd likely end up with after mediation or court. Then you go back to your STBX, be honest about whether you still think the tentative agreement is fair, and maybe negotiate some of the finer points. Then you give the final decision to the attorney's (both giving the same information, preferrably in writting in a document you have both reviewed and agree is accurate) so it can be written up in legalese. The easy way is characterized by mutual respect and a desire to not spend your child's college tuition money on attorney's.

Definition of the hard way
You may talk to your STBX, but one or both of you throw all of that out the window when you talk to the attorney because the attorney says "She's trying to screw you, I can get you X." Every little decision is a huge battle and costs hundreds in attorney's fees. It is very expensive and stressful on everyone (the parents, the children, the grandparents, friends) to divorce this way and it is very difficult to co-parent during and after a divorce like this.

Your STBX probably does not know there is an easy way. Most people will pick the easy way if given a choice. Your STBX may not have anticipated that when he went to his attorney, his attorney had an agenda - an agenga that requires he convince his client to fight over everything so the attorney can get paid as much as possible. It is really easy to get sucked in by this kind of an attorney, and it's only after you are aware of what is really going on and make a concious decision to take the easy way, that he can then stand up to his attorney and say, "No, my STBX and I agreed on this and I am not willing to fight to get more because I believe what we agreed on was fair" or "Ok, I will take what you said into consideration and have another discussion about it with my STBX"

I talked my ex into taking the easy way by telling him over and over and over and over that I was not trying to screw him and that I would not ever screw him out of anything, and then by doing things to back it up. It was a lot of work, but not nearly as hard as the hard way. I said things like, "I want what is fair and is in the best interests of dd, this is what I think, what do you think." I warned him about finding an attorney that wanted him to screw me over, and I assured him that when I interviewed attorney's I was very careful to pick one that was supportive of amicable divorces. When his attorney tried to add $20k onto my annual salary and came up with an outrageous child support number, I calmly explained to him what his attorney was doing wrong and asked him to clear it up. When he said he couldn't understand all the numbers, I said well you know for a fact I make $X, please call your attorney and tell him I make $X. Then I called my attorney and explained to her what the other attorney was doing wrong (assuming 26 pay cycles when it was really 24, adding my 401k loan repayment as income, my dependent care reimubursements as income, expense reimbursements as income) and had her call his attorney and walk through it. That little issue cost us several hundred exrta $$ in attorney's fees, but it would have been a disaster if every issue had been like that. I believe most of our decisions were amicable because we talked, we agreed to stick by our word, and if we changed our minds or became unsure, we talked again. If we had to go the hard way, I'd still be married because there is no way we could have afforded it. That was my motivation for doing everything possible to take the easy way.

If your STBX chooses the hard way, you have no choice. You then know you can't trust what he says and you have a huge fight on your hands, and you need an attorney that can fight right back. But give him a second chance to make it right before you get completely dragged down that path against your will.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Thu, 02-24-2005 - 3:43pm

SNOW????


Karen ~ wildlucky4me ~

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Thu, 02-24-2005 - 3:47pm
Everybody is leaving work early, my dd's school only closed an hour early but she's with her dad this week. There is supposed to be a much bigger storm here early next week. We have had a lot of snow this year so far. All I want is to NOT have to buy a second tank of heating oil this winter :(

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iVillage Member
Registered: 08-01-2001
Thu, 02-24-2005 - 3:49pm

Yeah, the school I work at closed at 12:30 too (well, the kids were let out then), and so was my dad's school!

Anyway, I did not have a lawyer with me. I didn't see the need for one at this point, since we were just going to settle on child support and I knew most of it was calculated from black and white figures. Not to mention I had told H that it was NOT a trial, and we had discussed it.

I'll tell you what though, any time I am meeting with H from now on I am having a lawyer! I was really in such shock that he even had one. And a sneaky, mean one too! I thought H was smarter than to let a sly attorney talk him into being nasty. I was wrong.

I don't really care about the money as much as the fact that H is going behind my back and going back on his own words. Truthfully, we were going to try and work things out, but I really don't see how that is possible now. What could he be thinking?

I am worried that the two things they were going to bring up could be any of the following:
1) He wants to get dd
2) He wants to file for divorce NOW
3) He wants me to give up my half of the house

I don't know what to say to him at this point. I am afraid to, like anything I say he will later use against me. A lot of my stuff is still at the house, I guess I can kiss it goodbye.

I was lucky, my parents divorce was extremely amicable. I guess that is what I was hoping for.
I am not upset anymore, just really confused, scared, and angry! Why doesn't he get that I am not trying to take anything away from him, or screw him over? MEN!!!!!

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Thu, 02-24-2005 - 4:02pm
OK... I'm wishing for warmer days for you... and SNOW for me!


Karen ~ wildlucky4me

Karen ~ wildlucky4me ~

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-27-2003
Thu, 02-24-2005 - 4:08pm

haha.... you can come to Buffalo, where winter NEVER EVER ends ;)

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Thu, 02-24-2005 - 4:16pm
SNOW --- good in moderation... LOL!

Karen ~ wildlucky4me ~

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Thu, 02-24-2005 - 4:39pm

>>>I am worried that the two things they were going to bring up could be any of the following: 1) He wants to get dd, 2) He wants to file for divorce NOW, 3) He wants me to give up my half of the house<<<

As for 1 and 3, not a chance in the world those could happen. The only way he could get custody is if you had left the home and not taken dd with you. Family courts are either in favor of women having primary custody, or they are in favor of encouraging joint custody. Unfortunately for your STBX, I have never heard of a court favoring the father having custody unless there is an unusual circumstance (such as the wife ran off or the wife agrees to give up custody). He may want you to give up your half of the house, but there is no legal way he can accomplish that unless you agree to it. As for number 2, why would it matter if he files for divorce now vs. later?

>>>I don't know what to say to him at this point. I am afraid to, like anything I say he will later use against me. A lot of my stuff is still at the house, I guess I can kiss it goodbye.<<<

You have to talk to him. You are parents to your little girl. Just be careful what you say. If you say "I really hoped we could remain amicable" and "I don't understand why what we agreed on before didn't matter today" and "I really want to find a middle ground that is fair to both of us and puts dd's interests first" - none of that can be used against you.

>>>I was lucky, my parents divorce was extremely amicable. I guess that is what I was hoping for. I am not upset anymore, just really confused, scared, and angry! Why doesn't he get that I am not trying to take anything away from him, or screw him over?<<<

I can't speak to your parents divorce, but in my divorce I didn't just hope for it to be amicable, I worked really hard to make it amicable. I don't think your STBX can be expected to "know" that you will not screw him over. I am sure his attorney told him that people always start out wanting things to be amicable, but it never stays that way (one attorney I interviewed told me this, I didn't hire her). And he's probably thinking that you have no reason in the world to be fair to him any longer. My parents had an amicable divorce too, and my ex's parents did not and 30 years later still can't be in the same room. I told my ex I wanted to follow my parents model of divorce not his parents, and of course my ex agreed. But I cannot tell you how many times he was CERTAIN I was going to change my mind at some point and screw him, take all the money and leave him with nothing and then move home and he would never get to see dd. I am not exaggerating when I say I told him over and over and over that I would not screw him. I backed it up by talking to him A LOT about what we both wanted to come out of the property settlement and what we both wanted for custody and how we were both going to be able to afford to support ourselves after we separated. There were times I thought we had talked it to death, but I didn't give up because I knew what the alternative was.

As soon as you decide to go the hard way with him, you've lost. He has started on that road but it's not a done deal. How you react right now is critical. Tell him you want to work together, not against each other, and you want what is best for dd and you know you can agree on that, that you two are the parents and the attorney's don't have to live with the decision, the two of you have to feel okay with whatever agreements come out of this - whether you work together or some judge dictates who gets what. And if nothing else, just be nice. Don't give up any rights and don't go anywhere or do anything without your attorney - but also don't stop being fair and he might just see that there is no need to fight this out. What tends to happen I think sometimes is one person goes in saying I want 60% and the other person responds with "Then I want 70%" and the first person comes back with "Well then I'm going for 80%" and before you know it most of it is going to the attorney's. If he comes up with "I want the proceeds from the house" well that is just not realistic, and if you come back with "I think the law says we should split the proceeds and all I want is what is fair, I believe 50% is fair and I am sure the judge will agree, but if we can come together and settle it ourselves it will save us a lot of money" - well, you can't really argue with that.

The last comment I have is that the child support calculation does appear to be black and white but it's not. It's important to have both parties provide adequate documentation of their pay, and if someone wants to say "well my salary is changing" then that is disputable and you don't have to agree to it. Even when all the same information is use, it can be disputed. My ex's attorney came up with $155 per month and mine had $125 per month using the same numbers - but one used my actual taxes (which was for a married person) and the other used the computer's estimate of what my taxes would be as a single person. So it is important (as you now know) to have your attorney involved in computing the child support.

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