Update on ramble

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Update on ramble
9
Wed, 07-07-2004 - 7:34pm
First I want to thank you all for your input. For the most part I agree BUT (of course) I feel that there is a little bit of misinterpretation from me going on or something.

First of all - his father bought his condo - his father's name is on his condo - and he is really afraid that they will be so angry they will take away his home. Hie has now made it clear that he doesn't care if they do. He is making plans as to what he will do if that happens. If my very home depended on this type of thing I know that I would at least want to be prepared and apparently he is preparing for that now.

Secondly - I am not waiting for him to be relationship material. He is and has been and has been there for me, been with me, and treated me kindly the whole time. We have never called each other nasty names or even ignored each other's phonecalls when were upset even if we didn't want to talk. The time that I did break up with him I lasted a week. He is my best friend. He was so incredibly happy that I called too - When things happen we are the first people we tell. The first people we think of when we get up and the last at night. He hadn't slept in 3 days. We have a relationship. We are not engaged. that is what I am looking for.

Now here is the point. I want to marry him and he isn't 100% sure of that. For whatever reason. He does love me. He does want to get married someday. I think that he just wants to be sure that this is "the one" because it isn't a simple little scenario for him. Obviously his family will not approve of a divorcee with a child and that is tough on him. Especially since pleasing his parents has always been so essential.

SOOOO - once someone knows they want to marry you you would think it is time to get engaged right? Is a year too soon for that? How many courtships have lasted for longer than that? Plenty. I don't feel that i need to cut him off because he hasn't proposed. And the thing is - in his world - meeting his parents and moving forward will be engagement. I know that. So is it right to say "well, I want to be married and he hasn't proposed"? I don't think it is. I know he loves me - I know he wants to be married and I am on him about what he really wants from me. We are making progress. Slowly - but we are. I have rushed everythign in my life and that never worked - maybe this IS better.

But Jack is NOT using me. If he thought getting married wasn't a possiblity I know he wouldn't be here. WELL.....guess I just answered my own question huh?

Maybe I am victim of my own self-doubt. I would say that is likely. I am not trying to turn this around - he should be able to be more forthright. I realized last night as I was telling him how I felt that in the past I have said "I am unhappy with this and if you don't want to make me happy then I am gone" Last night I told him "I am not saying I am going anywhere - I want to tell you how I feel and discuss it. And then I want you to think about it and we can discuss it more. I want you to know that I love you and need a solid commitment from you because I feel insecure and unsure and need something in my life that God willing I CAN be sure of." He really did talk with me. He really started to open up. We talked about what we wanted ingeneral in life and what mattered to us in the future with home and family and career....And that is when he mentioned moving because his father would have the power to take away his home when he tells them. He said "when".

I just wanted to say that I have dated plenty of A-holes and he isn't one. Yes he has some issues - but so do I. For the most part I can deal with his and vice-versa. I felt bad because some of those posts were so harsh. He really doesn't deserve that bad a bashing because he has outstanding character - even if mommy and daddy do scare him, Do any of you have millions of dollars on the line if they piss off their parents? Then I suppose we can't judge someone unless we are in their shoes.

Anyways - just my opinion. But all the ideas did make me realize that with our relationship and how we feel about each other being engaged would not be an unreasonable step. I will not stop this diuscussion until we get to the bottom of it all. Because we dont' want to let go - we don't want to be friends. We want to be together and think that it is starting to become more plain to see.

So thanks - your kick in the butt is being gently transfered to it's rightful target LOL


Laura

Avatar for cl_beckty
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Registered: 03-20-2003
Thu, 07-08-2004 - 10:12am

No one said Jack was an AHole. Spineless maybe, but not a jerk.


Here's the BIG issue. He can't acknowledge you to his family. Millions of dollars on the line or not (which btw made me rather sick to read. Either he loves you or he doesn't. It ought not be about cold hard cash, and I'd feel pretty crappy if I were in your shoes), divorcee with a child or not, he needs to grow a spine and be

Becky

 

 

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Registered: 12-19-2002
Thu, 07-08-2004 - 11:04am

Laura, I think this is a key issue for you and this goes to the bone for you, from what I've observed:


"Obviously his family will not approve of a divorcee with a child and that is tough on him."


A divorcee with a beautiful little girl is not some kind of second-class

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Thu, 07-08-2004 - 5:32pm
I don't think that I am not worthy - I don't even really believe that they will be as awful as he says but they could be. And that would be an issue for me if it was. The point is I don't know because it hasn't happened. I think they would be fine. The point is his mother made it clear to him that her feelings are it is an ACTUAL SIN to #1 be a divorcee with a child and #2 to date one. Let's hear it for religious freedom (she is a bit of a bible nut and this apparently is in her religious creed somewhere)

As far as his dad I have no idea. There hasn't been any info about what his views are because he doesn't know. He knows that Jack is with someone that is about it.

I don't think I am second class - I guess they do. I don't think once they get to know me and know about me it will matter. Jack isn't sure they can get past their disappointment to get to that point.

Just to touch on Becky's comment about the money - I have told Jack that I didn't care and I don't think he does but then again I think that it is frightening because he has lived his life int he security of it and knowing that he would not have to worry about certain things. I think it is not about the material aspects - just the security of it. His father could take away his home I suppose and I can see how that would be very upsetting. Personally I have always been a BIG risk taker so I would just do it but that is me. I haven't met anyone that was like me yet in every aspect. This is one of those things where we differ. I consider that to be a good thing to differ on.

Jack himself does not see me as second class. I do not believe he is doing this out of being ashamed of me (I did I one time wonder but have worked through that)

It isn't that I think other people are better - it is what other people think of ME - not what I personally think. Do you know that my biggest complaint of all the people that have known me in my life about me has been that I act/think that I am BETTER than everyone else???? Kind of funny. Honestly, I think I am a great person - I am a great friend and I try to give of myself and listen and be generous and kind. I think that I am pretty awesome. Wouldnt' mind to be in better physical shape but hey - can't have it all right? But I have had people treat me and tell me the opposite of what I believe about myself for so long. They people that do see that me and believe those good things are true always tell me that everyone else is just jealous. Big help huh? I think my mom used the same crud when I came home from school crying in 1st grade because the kids were so mean to me.

So he is a little spineless when it comes to him parents. This is new territory. I am not convinced that he can't overcome this and I believe that even without me - FOR HIMSELF - he wants to. If he did it for me it wouldn't last. If he does it for himself that is a different story.

Well, I am not ready to give up yet. Sometimes I just need to vent my frustration. I am not backing off with him at all right now and I told him that. It is time for him to figure it out and I expect that to happen very very soon. I have been crystal clear. If it is going to be bad why not just do it right?

Thanks for all the insite - I am thinking about it and pondering it - do not think your points are in vain!

Laura

Avatar for mandymi
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-20-2003
Fri, 07-09-2004 - 5:15am

OH, I just responded to the original thread asking how things were going...




http://somedaysijustworkhere.blogspot.com/">

Avatar for myprecioustwo
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Registered: 04-08-2003
Fri, 07-09-2004 - 7:28am
This is HOW I SEE IT. Take it or leave the comments, but I do have a few things to say on this topic.

First of all, regarding the comments that seemed so harsh; too bad. I have been on this board for over 2yrs and my life is not a cake walk; it never has been, because I have serious issues in my past that I know makes me a very bad judge of character in my relationships. When I had worries (recently as well with the last guy) I have ALWAYS got other peoples opinions and believe me, it was sometimes a kick in the butt and I tried to make excuses, but in the end, they were all right. I look at this board because others see things with different eyes. They don’t have the excuses that I do or the rose colored glasses on. They see the potential hazards that can come in being in a hurtful, abusive, or otherwise bad situation that I wouldn’t see, because I refuse too. We all come here to give our worries and we might try to defend ourselves sometimes when we don’t like the answer (we’ve all done it, even the CL’s: Maggie, Becky, Tara)but that is our each and everyone’s own prerogative at the end of the day. We can only try to see so much, you need to know what you are worth at the end of the day.

I know I must sound like a total B right now. Believe me, I am not. I understand the back and forth and doubts you are going through, but you are going to have to stop the serious pondering my dear.

We are talking about a man who sees his millions more important than you. With all the money he has, I don’t see him paying your rent either in a time of need when you are worried about eviction and not having a job. I don’t see why you haven’t thought of that. You want to jump into living with him, which he really isn’t to keen on parting with money, no matter if he jumps in for a few groceries and tid bits, it isn't the sign of serious love. I've had men offering me house and cars to get me through rough times, but I was never into the men enough to take on the offer, because I felt like I was using them. Your probably saying: No it’s not his problem, but if he really loves you, he’ll make it part of his problem. Money, money, money, money; your making very poor excuses for Jack. It’s obvious his money at the moment is more important than you and your child, no matter how much you turn the coin, or how many loaves of bread and milk he buys you. My daughters first father comes out a Million dollar family. He said he can’t marry me because of his family didn't approve of the marriage and he didn't want to be disowned and live in an apartment with patio furniture (his exact words. He left us high and dry, we haven't seen a penny in 11yrs. You know what I did 3yrs ago when my daughter was 7? After never recieving one response from the letters and pictures I sent them, I called his parents, because I NEVER PERSONALLY was told from them what they thought I was a disgrace, I just believed my X and therefore took my daughter and came to Germany to start a new life. You know what happened? They totally freaked out when I called, they made me feel so tiny, because I kept their ONLY grandchild away from them and their son (my X) told them I never wanted anything to do with them. It took my daughter to visit them (nosey as she is) to go through her fathers old room and closet and find all the letters and pictures that I had addressed to his parents. THEY NEVER RECEIVED THEM. When Alex found them, his mother called me crying and apologizing for all those years. Now we are the best of friends and they have been wonderful. Basically, Alex’s father is a selfish man who never wanted to part from his millions. To bad, because his parents ended up losing almost all of it. But to this day, he still hasn’t paid a cent to me for Alex, because he can’t part from his money. He says he needs every cent for himself. But I don't need it, it would be a nice to have, but not a must. Ok, so now you say, this isn’t their grandchild. Ok, I can understand that, so let me tell you another storey.

When I moved to Germany I met my X husband and we went out a full year and he refused to introduce me to his parents because they always said “NEVER bring a single mother with child into our home, we’ll abandon you as our son. A single woman with a child is a used product and we have no interest.” He hid us for a year and never told his parents that I had a child and his excuse was I had no time or interest to meet them. One day, I said “Enough is enough; either it’s you and your parents, or it’s me and you introduce me to your parents, but I am not putting up with this hiding anymore; a year was it’s limit and the time is up. I am tired of feeling like I should be ashamed of my daughter and myself. I am proud of me and my daughter and you can take it or leave it and so can they.”

Two days later I was introduced with my daughter who was 2 and half. They saw her, took her in their arms and she has been in those arms ever since. I thought when their only and real grandchild Nina was born, Alex would be forgotten; FORGET IT, they call Alex everyday and they spoil this child as if it were their own. They always joke around that she gets their looks and intelligence from them. Both of my girls are absolutely loved by them and both of my girls are also totally spoiled and loved by Alex’s Grandparents. None, on either side would change the fact that one of those grandchildren wasn’t theirs. They are proud of both; theirs or not.

Your sweetheart Jack needs to make a decision; you need to make a decision and quick. Give him the ultimatum and see what he does. His decision will really tell you what he thinks. Quit hiding, you are being just as spineless if you let this continue. Just because he is with you, does not mean marriage Laura. Believe me! He should quit having his cake and eat it too. If you don’t make him make a choice or introduce you proudly of whom you are, then he isn’t worth it. This involves your life and the life of your daughter. Think about how much you are worth. You do have a problem with self confidence; otherwise, you would put your foot down. Maybe deep down your scared of the real truth, that he'll choose the good life over you, well, if that's the case, do you really want someone like that? I would give myself a bit more self worth if I were in your shoes. Give him the ultimatum and take the risk. It might not be what you thought, but at least you can know for sure, and move on. If it is what you had hoped for, then wouldn’t that be wonderful for both of you that you all worried about nothing? If he does introduce you to his parents (very officially) and they still don’t except you and your daughter, then that is yet ANOTHER step. Take the first one though and quit rambling about what you think the problem might be, getting upset with us and some of our harsh comments and do something about it. Get a clear mind and find out for yourself. You’ll probably wonder why you took so much energy and time to ponder, ponder, ponder. Actions!, speak louder than words my dear and you need action.

That's the last advice I am going to give you, until you make something really happen, because I feel the ladies gave you a lot of their opinions and advice and in the end your only going to see what your going to see and I am not going to put much more energy in responding until you get the guts and make something happen. I know that sounds extrememly harsh, but call it tough love.

Believe in yourself, because we sure the heck believe in you. HUGS!

Catherine

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2004
Fri, 07-09-2004 - 8:24am
Hi Laura,

I was away when all the original posts were made. I think everyone here has something good to offer.

At any rate, I can see that both you and Jack are in difficult situations. It is hard for you because you want to move your relationship to something permanent and have a family and you are not getting a commitment or family involvement/acceptance. It is hard for Jack because his family seems to be overbearing and pushy and they have expressed a negative opinion of you.

First I wanted to comment on the living together situation. I know that many people here believe it is okay. Personally I don't believe that is okay. This is because I want marriage and another child and I don't believe that living together is a good way to get to that. So I don't think you should do that given all the issues that you and Jack need to resolve.

I do think you and Jack need to sit down and air your issues. I think you should explain that you have yourself and your daughter to think about and that you want a stable family for her with a husband and more siblings. But you also understand that Jack is in a tough situation with his family and not sure what he wants. So you two should take some time away from each other to see what matters. I think he needs to miss you to see what he really has and to think about things. Men think better over time and when they are alone, unlike women who need to get an opinion from everyone and then weigh them to get their own.

You cannot force Jack to make a commitment and nor would you want to do this. Maybe he is the one or maybe not. But you are never going to find out by just sitting and hoping. You have to bring up your feelings now.

I would encourage you, however, to bring them up in a positive and solution-like format. Don't accuse him or pass judgement on his family. Ask him to think if he is ready to provide you with the future that you want, which may mean standing up to his family. He is going to have to do this at some point, if not with you then with someone else.

You are certainly not second class because you are a divorcee with a kid. There are plenty of single moms out there and many find people who appreciate their unique set of life skills and talents.

At any rate, I wish you luck. This is so hard on you I am sure. I believe that time and patience will resolve your dilemma. Maybe Jack is meant to be or not to be. But you must not waver in your final goal of a committed happily married relationship with more siblings for your daughter.

Hugs!

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Fri, 07-09-2004 - 11:01am
Actually - I agree with what you said. However he hasn't any money now - I am talking about inheritance. But I still don't think it is about the money. It is about the approval. He is not materialistic like that - really.

But I can't take it anymore and if he doesn't know well then forget - you are right. I have felt like you about getting things from him too - putting things off until he dropped it because I felt like I couldn't accept things from him when I didn't know where we stood. I told him that last night. I think i am close to ending this issue. One way or another.

Thanks -

Laura

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Fri, 07-09-2004 - 11:07am
Thank you - that was a great post. That is how I feel. Being away from him is so hard for me right now and will take a lot of strength on my part. And you are right about how men think. Sometimes though when I do bring stuff up it is hard to get responses from him. He just sits and thinks - for a long time. That is irritating. But I think that just shows how focused and sure I am and how opposite he is. When I think about it I feel that even though he isn't sure that he doesn't want to be without me - he isn't sure about being WITH me either. And that isn't right. If he knew that he wanted to be with me it wouldnt' be an issue (likewise the other way) but the point is HE DOESN"T KNOW. And for me that isn't good enough. I can be patient but I only so much.

thanks!

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2004
Fri, 07-09-2004 - 1:35pm
I do wish you the strength you need. I know it is hard to put your foot down and spend time apart when you want everything to be fine and to just be with him. You will need a lot of strength for this.

Sometimes we have to try to look at these inconveniences/negative events in life as something that has a positive purpose. Perhaps it is time for you to move on and find what you really want? Perhaps his purpose was not to be a life partner but to be a teacher for something and there is really someone better around the corner and his purpose was to make you appreciate the new person?

Or perhaps he is the one and you have to have this talk and a little time apart for him to realize that.

At any rate, I don't think you should take this personally. It is all about his relationship with his mother and father. And his readiness for what you want. It has to be right or it is not worth having.

I did think of a solution. Perhaps now he should focus on coming clean with his mom by telling her about you and you two can test the waters for her reaction and how he handles it. That is a step. And a solution for you to give him instead of just a problem. This will tell you the future. Either he stands up to her and she accepts you or he cannot and then you have to move on.

And be positive - perhaps his mom will see how serious he is about you and then she will take the time to know you. And she will love you and your daughter. You have to give her a chance. But you should do this slowly.