Back to sexless marriage topic...

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2003
Back to sexless marriage topic...
11
Thu, 07-22-2004 - 3:58pm
We were discussing this a couple of weeks ago and I remember there was some discussion about why men can't or won't have sex with their wives, whom they love, but will go out and have a full-on sexual affair with another woman. And there was some curiosity as to why men do this... so I thought I would share this...

Well, D and I were watching a soft “adult” movie last night, basically it was in the form of a behind-the-scenes documentary about a lap dancer. She was commenting that many of her clients were married and that it is her job to be what a man’s wife, girlfriend or fiancée won’t be. It is her job to give them their fantasy, or what they can’t get at home. Then there was a scene where she had just finished a lap dancer for a guy who was engaged to be married and she was talking to him afterward and asking him some pretty poignant questions. He ended up telling her that he truly loves his fiancee’ and has a tremendous amount of respect for her and he could never ask her to do these things. He viewed them as beneath her. He felt that asking her to behave in such a way would be disrespectful of her. And so he would never ask or expect her to do anything out of the norm or “vanilla”, but he felt perfectly ok about going out and getting it somewhere else! She later went on to say that this was a very common reason why men pay her to do what she does.

So what do you think about that? IS this common? Do you know any guy who thinks this way?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Thu, 07-22-2004 - 4:14pm
I know of several men that would NEVER allow their wives to perform oral sex on them - because "that's the mouth that kisses our children." And they have absolutely no issues having a mistress or a whore do so - because that is out of the realm of "wifely duties". My ex's father was Sicilian - raised around (although he nor his family was) the mophia - and this was a very normal thing. My FIL was extremely loyal, this always bothered him, and it always bothered my ex, as well.

It's the same in other cultures, Japanese being one of them. It is known, and actually expected (this is changing in the current generations) that a wealthy, successful business man has a wife and a family for appearances, the wife to take care of him and the family, and a geisha to take care of his sexual desires and fantasies. He would never ask his wife to perform any of the sexual activities he performs with his geisha - and if she were to offer - she would diminish her position in the house and the marriage.

My friend just got back from spending 9 months in Spain and came back and said the ONE THING that she REALLY didn't like was that married men were VERY open about their extramarital affairs, and the wives were pretty much expected to tolerate it - and were fed the line "everyone else is doing it, this is the way it has always been, there is nothing wrong with it, it's YOU he loves, he just uses her for sex!" She said it was common knowledge that the men were sleeping around - to everyone.

Is it common - I think it's more common than we think.

How do I feel about it - it's disgusting. *I* am the only woman I want fulfilling my dh's fantasies. I am the ONLY woman I want him having any sort of sexual contact with. If he has a fantasy - I want him to share it with ME and I want to help him figure out a way to make the fantasy come true (some fantasies will NEVER be more than fantasies - but the fantasies can be played out a little bit) . . . for him to do so with another woman would be a huge betrayal, and NOT ok.

Avatar for cl_beckty
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-20-2003
Thu, 07-22-2004 - 4:32pm

I have NEVER known a man like this.


I can't imagine not being able to separate your wife the "mom" from your wife the "lover".


I am with Mindy. There is no way any other woman would be permitted to fulfill any fantasy my husband has, and I'd be devastated if he wasn't able to share with me and wanted someone else to fulfill them.


I knew that in Eastern cultures the idea of a wife being above such activity used to be common. But I thought that was ANCIENT history. I had no idea anything like this was still common. It'd be interesting to read up on.

Becky

Becky

 

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-19-2002
Thu, 07-22-2004 - 5:38pm

Gabriella, I haven't known anybody like the last few posts talked about, but I've known many men, or believed that many men right here in our own culture, would just as soon "cheat" with a lap dancer (doing something for sexual stimulation that they won't admit to or tell their SO's) rather than delve into fantasies or open up about these things with their woman.

Avatar for comountainsprite
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 07-22-2004 - 8:43pm
Thankfully I haven't known men that would feel that they wouldn't ask their wife to fulfill certain desires but would feel perfectly okay about getting those on the side. However, that said, I do know for a fact that there are certain things that dh has engaged in with other women many years before we met, and even for that matter with his last girlfriend that he wouldn't do with me and doesn't want to do now. I know that sounds a little strange but the only reason he was okay with it then was that he was not in a love relationship with those women--they were shallow relationships and he didn't have a lot of respect for them. Also, according to him, there are somethings he tried becuase it sounded like it'd be really, really hot and it turned out that it was not all it was cracked up to be and left him feeling rather hollow. We actually had a long conversation about this one night and about the fact that we're really open about our desires but that he would never want to engage in something with me that he felt degraded me or disrespected me. (BTW, this came out of some of my insecurity that there are certain things I knew about things that his last girlfriend requested that I just wouldn't feel comfortable with.) His thing was that he'd had the opportunity to try most anything he'd wanted to and found out what really satified him. Basically I ended up seeming like the adventurous one--his deal was that we have a great sex life, he likes the things we do and hope I'm not bored. And to tell the truth, we've only gotten hotter and more open about stuff the longer we've been together. We're both far more willing to ask for dirty talk or a striptease or whatever (sorry hope that didn't offend) now than we were earlier in our relationship because of the trust and communication.

So, I guess in answer to your question, no I'm not convinced it's the norm and in fact find it to be a disgusting attitude. And based on some other conversations, I can tell you with absolute certainty that dh would have a few choice words to say about a man like you described and they wouldn't be complimentary. I mean it's cheating on your partner no matter how you look at it and dh is totally disgusted by it. I guess I find it to be extremely odd because I've found that monogamy is really, really hot precisely because you love and respect and trust your partner so you can be open about your desires. Make sense?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 07-23-2004 - 10:23am
I know LOTS of women who wouldn't want to have anything to do with "out of the ordinary" sex. And ask them to act out a fantasy with their man?! GASP! NO WAY!

There are women I know that I would NEVER mention some of the "play" trav and I have because they would TELL me he was disrespecting me. And, I was IN a marriage like that myself. When I tried to get kind of experimental, I got shut down. So, yeah, it's more common than you think. It's a holdover from the so called "morality" that kept people from even MENTIONING the word pregnant out loud. And lots of the women who feel this way try to say it's because they're "liberated" and won't be treated like someone in a porn film...hmmmm....if we're liberated can't we do anything we want? :)

It's still around in a lot of the churches I attended, too.

I love that Trav is open about it, and that he is GLAD, VERY GLAD that I like sex and to experiment. He's one of the few men I've met (hey, I live in the bible belt) who didn't think I was too fast!

Avatar for cl_tcranky1
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Fri, 07-23-2004 - 12:14pm

Gee.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-05-2004
Fri, 07-23-2004 - 6:49pm
What an interesting topic. I don't know any men that feel that way, but I don't doubt that it exists. And I have seen it from the female side as well. One of my best friends once told me that she could care less if she ever had sex again. It just didn't mean that much to her. She got married the same year I did (1988). She's still married, and I'm divorced and still single. I don't get it. I know that married couples can have different sex drive levels. I had a higher drive than my ex, but to never care about it, I just don't get it.

I also agree that to go outside of a relationship to get what you really want sexually is disgusting. In my opinoin, it's a cop-out, an excuse to cheat. You should be able to communicate what you want to your SO. You might not want to try everything, but you should be able to express your feelings. You also have to wonder if these guys who are cheating and saying that "my wife won't do this" is even true. I've had personal exerience with this one. When I was married, my sister and her husband and me and my ex were all close. We lived close to each other and we spent almost every weekend together. When my ex left, my BIL was devastated because he thought of my ex as his brother. My BIL went to talk to my ex to try to convince him to come home. After that talk, I talked to my BIL, who told me that my ex said he cheated on me because I never gave him oral sex. GIVE ME A BREAK -- NOT TRUE. I think some men use that line as an excuse to cheat -- but that could be the topic of another post.

I think some people just "click" in the sex department with their SO. They can experiment or exchange ideas or express feelings without being embarrassed or ashamed. That's really special when it happens. I think an important part of good sex is good communication. Both people should be happy, not just one. I feel really bad for people like my friend who feel that way about sex. They're missing alot.

Donna

Avatar for cl_tcranky1
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2003
Fri, 07-23-2004 - 7:41pm
Or if the man even ever asked his wife to do whatever it is. Because if there are a lot of men out there who think you shouldn't ask your wife to perform "kinky" sex acts, then maybe it's not so much she wouldn't do it, as he never asked?

Tara

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Fri, 07-23-2004 - 7:54pm
The theory is that the men WON'T ask because they think it would be degrading to their wife to . . . I don't know . . . oral sex is pretty vanilla nowadays, so maybe try anal, maybe talk dirty, maybe do a strip tease, maybe give him a lap dance, maybe masturbate in front of him, maybe bring a second woman into the bedroom, maybe use props, maybe act out a dominant/submissive fantasy, a teacher/student fantasy . . . .

I actually KNOW men that are this way (they are all older, and they are all Japanese (from when I worked with a Japanese tour group) or Sicilian (friends of my exFILs) - feeds the stereotype nicely) . . . the things they are willing to do with a mistress or a whore (or prostitute or whatever the p.c. term is) they would NOT be willing to do with their wife, as they feel it would be degrading. Cheating on their wife is better, in their mind.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2003
Wed, 07-28-2004 - 2:00pm
UPDATE! This is too funny and too coincidental, that I have to share it with you!

D and I watched Nip/Tuck last night. We are hooked on that show. Anyway…a woman came in wanting to have her lips restored. They were badly damaged, although I forget why. They told her they could and that they have had great success reconstructing facial lips with skin and tissue from the labia. She said the what? And one of the doctor’s said, the other pair of lips…you have two!

She said, Oh no! My husband would be mortified. He would never kiss me again! And she explained that he is Sicilian and he has never gone there. That Sicilians believe that performing oral sex on a woman is a sign of weakness in a man. (interesting).

Anyway, she ultimately decided to have the procedure done, just so she could have the satisfaction of having her husband kiss her "there". She told her husband they took the skin from the back of her knees and he told what soft and pink lips she had and kissed her repeatedly!

Talk about getting back at someone!

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