would appreciate relationship advice
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| Wed, 11-08-2006 - 9:20pm |
This isn't really bipolar related, but then again, everything is in some way.
I am struggling to figure out what to do about my husband. I am going to try to be as brief as possible as I have given some information about him in previous messages.
We have always had a rocky marriage, which is disappointing because the year we dated was the best in my life. I went into a terrible, suicidal depression shortly after the wedding, which I blame on a combination of moving to a place I detest (no longer there, luckily) leaving all my friends in my favorite city in the nation, having no job or meaningful distraction, my husband working ridiculously long hours, and of course my depression-prone personality and taking Lariam which has sent quite a few soldiers mad.
The depression lasted about a year. My husband has a communication problem, he doesn't talk. His friends don't seem to mind as most of them are deeply self-centered and happy to monologue to fill the silence. He doesn't seem to have this problem with his really close friends. I thought I was one of his closest friends, though, and I am still traumatized by his cavalier attitude toward me that year.
He has no social phobia that I can pinpoint, he actually does very well in novel social settings. I hear constantly from near-strangers who have only spoken to him once that he "sounds like such a nice guy" or similar. He's a foreigner, so I chalk some of it up to being dazzled by the accent, but he is obviously able to get people to warm up to him extremely quickly.
He's had bad luck in love. I was his first stable relationship, depending on how you define stable. He has been used by women a few times. I do not do that, so that was never an issue for me. I genuinely loved him.
So, why on earth did he proceed to ignore me for years. He never asked me about myself, and now when he does, it feels forced and I don't want to share. I am keeping so many secrets from him, nothing bad that I've done, just about my illness, fears, little things I've done in a day. I used to tell him everything, but then one day it dawned on me that he really isn't interested. I heard a line from a documentary once that stuck with me: "He has no curiousity about me."
We had a horrible fight last week. I hit him, something I haven't done in years. (Scold me about it later, please. I don't excuse it, and I know most people would be livid if he had hit me, which isn't fair.) This week he's in Mexico. He is supposed to come home at the end of next week, but I told him not to. He has nowhere else to go, so I'm sure he'll return whether I approve or not. Today he sent me a gift with a note saying he doesn't tell me he loves me enough. I just feel so dead inside over this. I have lost that feeling of trust, that I could tell him anything and he would be supportive. When I was at my worst, I got the message over and over from him that I was being a drama queen. And my husband has had plenty of his own drama queen moments, so I don't know why he felt so hostile toward my emotions.
I told him not to call when he was away, just use email. We have spoken twice, though, once when I called and once when he called, but it was just business-type talk about things we need to get done around here. At the end of the last call he asked if we could talk about our relationship over the phone some night this week. I screamed something about him having years to talk about our relationship, and I hung up.
Do I call to thank him for the gift? Do I call to tell him I've changed my mind and we can work on this relationship? Do I wait to see if he returns in a week? I guess I love him, but sometimes I think I hate him, too. I am so sick of that awful disappointment, that I will tell him something REALLY important and he will change the subject, have no response, fall asleep, say the wrong thing. And when he says the wrong thing, he pulls out all the stops.
Thanks for reading. If there are any aspiring Dear Abbys around, please let's hear from you.

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I am no relationship expert. I've only been married a little under 18 months myself (though those have been very happy months at least in relation to the relationship.) But, let me tell you how I think I'd handle this. First off, whether or not you think your husband would show appreciation for a gift from you, tell him thank you! Always treat people the way you want to be treated, ESPECIALLY those closest to you! And, I feel most relationships are worth working on, so I would call and give it a shot with him. You can always break things off later if you have to.
That said, I don't know how I'd feel in your shoes. Not to make you jealous, but my husband in the years we dated and in our marriage has shown incredible care for my feelings. Maybe I'm just lucky. Or maybe your husband needs to learn how to care for people and can be taught. I honestly feel a lot of marriages that break up do so unnecessarily and should be worked on.
I'm rambling. Sorry about that.
But, I do know the place to start is the good old golden rule. "Do unto others..."
Express!
Beth "Petrouchka"
((((((Cari))))) I wish there were a simple answer to your plight. But in any relationship there are no easy answers. My first question is are you being treated for your bipolar? If so, what meds are you on? They may need to be changed.
One thing all of my tdocs have told me (and I'm on tdoc #5) is that when you are depressed you should never make any major decisions such as marriage, divorce, financial decisions, etc.
Another thing that you mentioned was that your husband is foreign. He may not be accustomed to sharing feelings. Some cultures just don't communicate that way. If that's the case, maybe that's something the two of you could work on together. It sounds like he has maybe had an epiphony where your marriage is concerned by sending you that gift.
Another option is marriage counseling. If he seriously wants to work on the relationship that is always an option.
But from what I have read, it sounds like you need to get your mood stabilized first and foremost. Otherwise you both will be fighting a losing battle. You aren't feeling well therefore can't give the relationship your best and he is on the outside looking in trying to fix something but doesn't know what needs to be fixed. Make sense?
Anyway, those are my thoughts. I hope I haven't offended you or stepped over the line. This is just my perspective based on what you wrote. Hope this helps you some. Keep us posted on how you're doing.
Hugs,
Traci
Hi Cari! I too am no expert and I am also lucky to have a DH who truly and completely loves me and let's me know all the time. I did have an XH who was nothing like that. He was British (not that all Brits are this way )and I called him the Re-Hasher. He rehashed everything that was wrong with me all the time. Even my high school years when I didn't even know him! Reading your post was interesting because of several mentions in this same vein:
So, why on earth did he proceed to ignore me for years.
I hit him, something I haven't done in years.
I screamed something about him having years to talk about our relationship, and I hung up.
It seems to me that you and/or him live in the past. If you guys can forgive and forget and start in the moment, then you will have a better chance to repair and move on. If you cannot forgive and forget, then the wounds will never heal and the marriage just won't work.
JMHO....
Good luck, I know it's a tough and heart wrenching situation.
Hugs, Kelli
Everyone has given you great advise/support so far.
God could not be everywhere, so
Well here is my two cents....somethings are going to be easy to help with, others I will muddle througn and/or let you know what I have gone through and you can take what lessons you want from that.
I will start with one EASY one, you stated
>>>>I am so sick of that awful disappointment, that I will tell him something REALLY important and he will change the subject, have no response, fall asleep, say the wrong thing. And when he says the wrong thing, he pulls out all the stops.<<<<<
SORRY, us guys can be dense at times as to whether what our ladies are telling us is REALLY important or not. I won't give examples and PO someone, but I too have been accused of not "caring", of just rolling over and going to sleep, of saying the wrong things....something we, as guys, just don't seem to get. There is a GREAT joke about this actually, which I won't go into, but if I find it in my e-mails I might post. Thus the silence sometimes, it doesn't take too many times being singed to decide that silence is the best response, but then THAT gets us into trouble. LOL.
Now to the more difficult....I am the bp one so just take that into consideration, but I was in the EXACT same place you are right now cari....I felt "dead" inside, I had lost ALL trust that my SO was/would be there for me, had been told that the issues were my fault....I finally asked for a divorce myself. DW felt like we were worth fighting for and drug me into MC for about the 4th time....it is still a work in progress, but we are still together....now let me let you know how else this is relavent. DW had been fighting a MAJOR depressive episode that just kept getting worse and worse, so no she couldn't be there for me, she was barely functioning herself. So having been on that side of the fence, I will say this, your H was doing what he could to "survive" also. He probably felt/feels betrayed and let down also from your depressive episode, he then distanced himself to keep from getting burned again....he may have felt he was being "used" again, that you had put up a front and this depressed person was who you REALLY were (BTDT, thought those thoughts), your posts sounds like a post DW would have written about our first year after marriage and our dating time.
I hear where you are coming from with things feeling "forced" after years of non-action. My biggest issue with DW during the years of depression was the lack of sex, and after so many years, when she finally started to respond to medication and actually DID feel like sex, I felt that it was forced because the other depressed person was who I had been dealing with more than who she REALLY was. Your situation may not be totally similar in that your H may not have emotional problems, but it is the same in that now he is TRYING to make a change, trying to connect with you, trying to find out about you, and it feels forced now because he never has before.
I too started to keep little secrets from DW and then it became more and more until she knew next to nothing about me and I knew next to nothing about her....the "little" secrets also lead to not so "little" secrets (I know because mine became about MAJOR things, like two A's).
Now for your questions....if you really want things to work and want things to turn around, YES call him and thank him for the gifts. You can also let him know at that time that you would like things to work, but that somethings need to change. You tell him then that you BOTH need to go to a counselor and that things can be discussed further there. I you feel like you and he can do this without a counselor then, you should spell out what you are looking for, what you want to improve, what you would like him to start doing and then listen if he has concerns also. Like I said, if you think you can do this calmly and non-judgmentally then for it otherwise you two should have a counselor present. If you decide to fight for this and make things work, then you need to set an inner time limit, he doesn't need to know about it, but if that time limit comes and things are not ANY better then pull the nuclear option. If they are improving, give credit where credit is due and keep working.
Marriage is work this far into it. It can be fun work, but it is work. One HUGE reference you BOTH should read is a book called "The Five Love Languages". It will help both of you better pin down what the other should be doing to make oneself feel loved. This book has been a lifeline for our marriage and gives DW and myself a point of reference to talk about why we are or are not feeling very loved at any given time. Also, like one of the others posted here, one has to be willing to forgive and move past the past hurts....that is the HARDEST part....trust me on that. DW and myself are finding that the hardest thing to move past is the hurt we have done to each other, intentional or not.
Sorry this got to be so long, but there is no "short" answer, figuratively and literally. Good luck and feel free to ask questions. DW lurks here too and may give a different view point if asked, she is "melissacat66".
Good luck again,
tk
Hi Beth,
Thank you so much for the reply. You are so right to start with the basics. I am a golden rule fan myself, so it would be unacceptable to me if this relationship changed me to the point that I lost my sense of good manners. I called and thanked him for the gift. It went well, though he was having work problems so we talked about that for a long time first. I didn't mind - I think it actually helped to talk about someone else who was driving us crazy. It gave me that important feeling of being part of a marital team. We don't have enough of that solidarity.
How sweet of you to not want to make me jealous. I am truly glad that you have a good relationship with your husband. It makes everything else seem more manageable. You brag about your guy all you want, I love it!
I also think my husband can be taught, his motivation is high now but that can shift. I take marriage very seriously - I don't want a divorce for myself or my kids - so thank you for pointing out that marriages are usually fixable if you don't give up on them.
How is everything going with the university?
Take care,
Cari
Hi Traci!
Thank you so much for replying to me. I know you've been going through your own nightmare with this disorder, so I am touched that you took the time to help me.
I am not being treated for bipolar, I can't even say for sure that I have it. However, I am so positive I at least suffer from SAD, and found out in an endocrinology class a few years ago that SAD is a form of bipolar. Who knew? Well, you all probably did.... :)
Great point about not making major decisions when you're depressed. I never thought of things that way. Funny, because I used to be a huge Suze Orman fan (financial guru) and she always says to wait 6-12 months after a major change (like death of a parent) before deciding what to do with the money. Since I am of the opinion that my marriage is more important than money, you'd think I would have put two and two together!
I have thought more about the cultural differences, and I think there is something to that. I think the big thing is Britain forces kids to specialize much younger. My husband had to choose between the arts or the sciences at 13, and he chose the sciences. He definitely feels like there were gaps in his education when it comes to dealing with people and finding the deeper meaning in what people are saying. I always figured everyone could do that to some extent. He is inadvertently deceptive, too, because he really is so charming with people.
I'm sure you're right that I am setting us all up for failure if I don't go after and treat the mood disorder. More and more I am considering revising my plan and finding a therapist. I at least took the first step and talked to my husband. I have agreed to talk to him on the phone. It's a small step for us, but a giant leap for our marriage!
You didn't offend me at all. You'll have to do a lot less of this showing concern for my feelings stuff if you want any chance of offending me! :)
Thanks again. Take care,
Cari
Hi Kelli,
Thanks for the reply. You went right to the core of the problem, well spotted!
I do tend to keep old hurts alive, whereas my husband is much more of the "what elephant in the livingroom?" type. I imagine that we both fuel each other, the more he ignores, the more I want to force him to acknowledge the problem, and everything that led up to it.
That is funny that your ex would rehash your past for you! My husband works with a Brit who is like that - in fact we discussed him at length durring our last talk. Could it be...?
I hope my husband and I can develop strategies to get over both of our past failings. Otherwise, I, too, will have a British ex-husband.
Thanks for your understanding. I hope you're feeling well, emotionally and otherwise.
Take care,
Cari
Hi Donna,
Thank you for your thoughts, they really help. Yes, marriage can be rough. I like to think that the struggle can make it more meaningful, but it doesn't always feel that way.
You are right, of course. I do need to talk to him honestly and calmly about the mood swings. That in itself would be a huge victory for me, because I am much more the "act out and let people interpret" sort of person. I look back at that behavior and it seems so childish. Why didn't I just tell people I was depressed or feeling out of control?
You made me feel so much better about hitting my husband. I used to work in a domestic violence shelter (awful place, but that's another story) and this place was extremely rigid. Male or female, if you hit someone you were scum, no mitigating circumstances. (Of course, these women who worked there weren't exactly opening up their home lives for inspection, so you can't know if they practiced what they preached.) I do believe I had no excuse for hitting him, but I also know I grew up in an extremely violent household. My brother routinely pulled a bread knife on me starting when he was age 3. Violence is what I knew for a long time, and it came back to me like a reflex the other day. My kids were at daycare at the time, so thank god for that. I am paranoid about passing that atmosphere down.
I so appreciate the support. Yes, crap happens. Sometimes it's as simple as that!
Take care,
Cari
Wow, tk, great response! You and your wife are such an asset to this board. We must get the two of you your own talk show! :)
Funny that you said sometimes men don't recognize what women feel is important. My husband has argued that before, but I ignored him. One argument he even shouted that I just don't understand men and that I should have been a lesbian. I still smile when I think of that comment, it just strikes me as so desperate. (We're both liberal so I knew it wasn't meant as an insult, just exasperation.)
You may well be right about my husband feeling duped by this suicidal wreck he ended up with for a year. I will have to ask him because now I am curious. I found out years after the fact that he had tried to help me (called a suicide line for advice) but since he never TOLD me he had done that, it didn't help at the time. I wish he had said something.
Your example about sex seeming forced was really helpful. I don't acknowledge his efforts very often, because I guess I don't automatically see them as efforts. To me, there are certain things people are supposed to do, so why should he get credit for, say, asking me what happened at my last doctor visit? I need to start seeing it as change, positive change, and change is so hard!
The major thing I would like for him is to not decide he can give up. He tends to try really hard for a while (a day or two) and then he will just stop. Much later I will find out that he felt like he had blown it in some way and so it wasn't worth trying anymore. I really want him to decide that so long as he is married, he can't go through those "I give up" days or weeks. At least not without warning me first, rather than explaining it away later.
I will look for that book next chance I get. My husband is eager to have a blueprint, so maybe there will be info in there that will resonate with both of us. I can completely see the small secrets turning into big secrets. He doesn't know anything about my last doctor appointment, and that was so traumatizing for me because the people were pretty rude and the doctor said the word "die" about half a dozen times in a 10 minute appointment. I'm still not over it - it has caused many a secret crying spell.
Thank you for taking so much time to respond to me. I have come to so many realizations by talking to all you people who have walked this course before me.
Take care,
Cari
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