Nice guys still come last??

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-13-2007
Nice guys still come last??
17
Sun, 10-14-2012 - 7:05pm

I'm not sure if this a question or a rant, but i wonder, past our 30's, does this still continue. As kids in our teens, and i guess into the 20's most women seem to just like the bad guy thing... so if you fall into the "nice guy" category, it is crazy hard out there. I spent so much time in the dreaded "Friend Zone"  i should have ran for mayor in there. Got tired of hearing the famous phrases " I like you as a friend", or " if i could meet a guy like you".. and i'd be thinking.... i am a guy like me... but i accept i had a part in being put in the zone, and after a while i became comfortable with it, thus ended having more female friends than male friends, some i have kept for almost 20 years. But things happened like they do for "nice guys", finally meet someone, and make the best husband you can be. but finding myself back single in my late 30s, so far i find the "nice guy" is still a problem. And i ask, why???

I know part of the reason is that most "nice guys" have no game.. they have no style when it comes to approaching women, so i guess that is a potential problem, but is an amazing pick-up line still a requirement... I watch and listen to some of my buddies as they pickup women, and i am amazed they can say some of the things they do, and then even more astounded that the women fall for these lines.... i don't i can say some of these lines with a straight face.... if a guy asks you to come home with him the night you meet in a bar... and says.. " i don't normally do this but we just have such a connection"... i am sure everyone knows that is a lie, but i can;t  believe how many times i have seen that work... and i am like.. really??

But for us, when you try to come respectfully, you are blown off... and then in the few rare cases that you make a connection with someone, as soon as they realise you are the nice type, they then try to run over you... Just because i am willing to do things for you when you ask, does not make it your newly aquired right. Just because i chose not to pick a fight over small things does not mean you can now run everything. I find a lot of these kind of women mistake kindness and quietness for weakness, and then they wonder why you just stop calling and drop out of their life.

Having been raised by strong women, I do respect a strong woman, but i get the idea that some of these women out still want a man with a neandethal mentality...or someone they can run over. Where are the ones that want an equal partner... that want to get together, figure out if its a good match, and if it is then build towards something. Not everything is going to be perfect, but keep an eye on the big picture, and with that, you can pick your battles better...

Ok it turned it more of a rant than a question, so I guess, the question is for the women on the forum, what do you think about the nice guys vs bad boys thing? Fellas, what is your experience with this, or what do you think too?

Pages

Community Leader
Registered: 07-16-2001
Sun, 10-14-2012 - 8:05pm
I don't go for nice guys or bad boys. Nice guys let us walk all over them and tend to lose themselves in a relationship. Bad boys treat women horribly and make us think it's all our fault. I dated a "nice" guy ten years ago and I had to walk on eggshells around the guy so I didn't upset his fragile ego. Then one day "nice" turned almost violent. That's when I ended it. My last boyfriend was what some people would call a bad boy, but he really wasn't. What he was was someone who knew how to manipulate me into thinking he was being good to me and cutting down my self esteem. Every other guy I've dated has been what I'd call a good guy. They knew how to treat a woman and themselves with respect. They didn't bow down to me just because I'm a woman. They didn't lose themselves in the relationship. Most importantly, they didn't think they needed "game" to talk to me. They were just themselves. There was never an act involved- whether that was a pickup line or trying to be overly cordial (yuck). All they had to do was be themselves.
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-03-2009
Sun, 10-14-2012 - 8:19pm

Ok I'm confused.  Are you looking for women to date and eventually find something committed or are you looking for women who will go home with you and sleep with you?  Because if its the latter then I'd say sure being a bad boy with a corny pick up line is precisely the way to go.  You've seen your buddies be successful in this manner so just follow their lead.

If it's the former then I'd say you're looking in the wrong place and talking to the wrong types of women.  And no you don't need a pick up line or to be a bad boy.  

I agree that a woman who behaves as if she can walk all over you isn't the woman you want either.  Who cares if she's sitting around wondering why you haven't called, that's her problem not yours.

As for what I think of nice guys and bad boys?  My only issue with nice guys isn't that they are nice.  It's that they're boring and often closeminded.  I'm a very on the go type of gal, so I don't care how nice a guy is if all he wants to do when we're together is just sit around then it's no wonder I've lost interest.  I'm not saying I live for danger or expect extravagance, but I can't just do dinner and a movie or the hang out at his place sorta thing all the time.  Life is way to short to never mix it up.  Now I have no problem suggesting things we could be doing that would be fun and interesting.  What do nice guys do when I do this?  Hem and haw and make up a zillion excuses about why they can't possibly spend their evening doing whatever I've suggested and then insist that our usual boring date will suffice.  And I'm not suggesting anything life threatening or illegal or insanely expensive.  So yes I have met plenty of nice guys and have dated many of them short term, but after a few months I just got so annoyed with them constantly refusing to move out of their social bubble that I just quit bothering.  Now I'm more likely to just send them right to the friend zone, because the inevitable frustration exhausts me. 

I find bad boys unsuitable for the type of commitment I want and I recognize that they aren't respectful of me (when I was younger I didn't get this), but at the same time they're never boring.  I don't know how they do it, but with them there's always a good time to be had, something unusual going on, and I always end up with this really crazy story to tell.  If I could have that kind of fun with a nice guy then I'd have gotten married ages ago.  I used to date bad boys because I just didn't get that I was being treated poorly.  Now that I get it I know it isn't worth hoping they'll change because they won't.  Once in awhile I'll go on 1 or 2 dates with one because it's a temporary bit of excitement to mix things up, reminds I'm still foxy, I'm guaranteed to have a good time, with such a brief amount of time invested there's no sex, and I'm not fooled into thinking they'll want a commitment.

So what kind of guy does that leave left?  If I knew the answer to that I wouldn't still be single.

Follow me to Coping with Job Loss

Follow me to Birth Control

--------
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-28-1999
Sun, 10-14-2012 - 8:27pm

Well I'm in my 50's and I definitely want someone who is nice to me as opposed to someone who is mean, angry or demanding.  The "bad boy" has no appeal for me at all.  I think that you should ask a close friend (preferably female) since you have a lot of them, why she thinks that you have trouble dating.  There's a difference between being a nice man and a total pushover or someone who's very clingy and whiny--are you exhibiting any of those characteristics?  And no, a guy doesn't have to have a "game" or pickup lines--but where are you trying to meet women?  If it's in a bar, it's difficult because you have to make a quick decision, which is why the guys who have game tend to win.  If you're more of the quiet type, you need to meet women in a situation where they can get to know you over a period of time.  I am also thinking of a friend of mine who seems afraid of women.  I'd go out with him if he ever asked me (& I"m not the only one) but he never takes any initiative.  We have asked him to come out with us in groups and he'll go but he never suggests it himself--and never mind an actual date.  Another friend has seen him in a club walking around & never asking women to dance or talking to them--so wonder why he's single?

Avatar for cfk_3
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-14-1999
Sun, 10-14-2012 - 8:32pm

Is nice just another word for boring? 

I want the total package.  Yes, nice is fine, sometimes.  However, sometimes I want someone who can be aggressive when I need him to be . . . and since I'm making a list, artistic is good too, and smart is always a plus.  I guess what I'm trying to "say" is, if you are so much of one thing that you're easily labeled, maybe you (or whomever) need to work on rounding yourself out a little.  Experience some new things.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-02-2008
Sun, 10-14-2012 - 8:40pm

I was wondering the same thing.. Is nice just another word for boring??

I seem to have always attracted the bad boy and went with it. I guess they are more exciting and fun.. which leads me to being alone now at 58 .. The two I married were bad boys and we got divorced. I had a few bad boy relationships in between and I never really was attracted to the nice guy although I really like nice guys .. I dont know. Nevermind (lol)

Avatar for cfk_3
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-14-1999
Sun, 10-14-2012 - 8:45pm
Maybe nice is boring and bad is unpredictable ;]
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-13-2007
Mon, 10-15-2012 - 1:50am

this is the reason i like this message board, people reply with a lot of honesty and varying opinions that teach a thing or two...

yeah it could be the 'boring' perception... but to that i ask, is your partner really supposed to be your entertainment? Before you meet them, you find ways to keep youself entertained, so why does the level of excitement he adds become a deal breaker. now if he is taking away from what you do, then i can see the problem... if you can't do your thing, read books, bungee jump, whatever makes you happy before you met, then there is a negative effect on your life that needs to be addressed. I know each person has their own list of things they need from a partner, but i have never understood that one.

I have heard it before, and i can agree i can be boring at times, in that i can be quite content doing the simple routine stuff for a while. but i have always believed that fun can be had even in the mundane, as long as one is connected enough to their partner, and willing to look for those moments... plus i have always gotten way too much "excitement" from my job, so coming home is  a return to peace and calm. Still up for anything, but probably not going to suggest it.

but even as i write this, i see the big weaknesses in the story and realise i got lucky to find someone once who liked that kinda relationship. probably won't happen again. Got to change, become a little more exciting ( reminds me of that credit card commercial on TV)

To the question asked earlier, was i just looking for someone to take home, no, I don't have that in me. Never had casual sex. Every person i slept with , i was in a serious relationship with. I have no moral objections to casaul sex,  and times i wish i could do it, but the idea just seems so confounding... it amuses even me. Funny story, once, on a second date from OLD, the lady invited me to her house for dinner, and after we were done, we watched tv, during which she seemed to drop hints for us to go to her bedroom. I was almost sure that is what she wanted, and having gone about a year without sex at the time, i definately wanted the same thing, but had no idea how to make the next move to get us there!! And i know, just go for it... but the thought in my mind was what if i'm misreading things... I know i frustrated her to no end, and eventually i decided to leave and go home rather than continue torturing both of us...Yeah, Nice guys suck sometimes. Gotta find a way to change

Community Leader
Registered: 07-16-2001
Mon, 10-15-2012 - 8:21am

If you're planning on being with someone for 30, 40, 50+ years, by golly there better be excitement.  Otherwise it's going to get really mundane after a very short period of time.  I tend to like routine and don't need a lot of drama to stay happy, but I have to have something to look forward to.  It's not that women expect men to be our entertainment.  We need for things to stay fresh and exciting to keep us interested.

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-24-2003
Mon, 10-15-2012 - 9:03am

 

'Nice', to me, is not very attractive, often short,  timid, unsure of himself,  boring, unexciting, clueless re: how to get to/get a woman, and is painfully aware of all those things. Bad boy, to me, is someone who's tall and gorgeous and aware of the fact, confident bordering on arrogant, fantastic at all things 'women' inc how to get them into bed very quickly (and what to do with them whilst there), likes to love them and leave them and has 3 chicks phoning him at the same time -  to each of whom he says 'my beloved...today, I'm very busy with family..so won't be able to see you...but definitely at the weekend'. You get my drift.

- the last sentence is as per my darling husband when he was in his mid 20s,, stunning beyond belief (not that he still isn't) and the worst of all bad boys -

Avatar for cfk_3
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-14-1999
Mon, 10-15-2012 - 9:08am

Maybe it's not you who needs to change.  Perhaps it's the women you typically ask out.  If you enjoy quiet evenings in 4 nights out of a week, you may not want to go for the social butterfly or vice versa. 

Pages