Debate vs Bashing

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-03-2006
Debate vs Bashing
657
Tue, 10-03-2006 - 2:54pm

LG wrote in the "Why Women Stay When Men Stray" thread: Hey, I am all for someone not wanting to broach a topic on this board, whether it is too personal, rubs you wrong or would give out TMI, but that is the time, IMO, to ignore the topic, not throw out the arguement, "it's my business" and expect to call it debating.

ITA! I am new here and have been lurking the past few days - doing lots of catch up reading. I realize you all have lots of history with each other, but there is too much bashing and too little debate going on here with many threads going way OT. Example: asking Hope, ad nauseum, about something personal she's obviously reluctant to answer; having a link deleted because it had TIES to a FORMER ku klux klan leader (I admit I was thrown by that for a minute until I actually read the article and learned that he is reformed and now an evangelist); posting the link to begin with when it was obviously a personal attack against a debater.

I'm wondering how many other lurkers out there have an opinion, but are afraid to weigh in because they don't want to get skewered. Don't you all think everyone, be they a BS, WS or AP, deserve to voice their opinions here. This is a debate board after all. (Not talking to everyone here - Jemmie, I think you are an angel.)

Psalms 25:4-5

Pages

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-03-2006
Fri, 10-20-2006 - 4:29pm

Sassy, that was priceless. I'm a huge MP fan.

Thanks for the laugh - nice start to my day.

PS

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-19-2006
Mon, 10-23-2006 - 8:04pm

I've been thinking about this thread. And I've just seen some of my more negative thoughts confirmed on another thread. So, rather than take a new thread off-track (again), I'll attach my more negative thoughts to an existing thread about the way this board seems to work.

I first posted here a few weeks ago. I was aware it wasn't a good time for a newbie to post, as I'd been lurking. But I let curiosity get the better of me. And I dared to share an opinion alongside my question.

The result? Several welcome posts (thank you to those who did that!). And a nasty post which insinuated that only one side of the affair triangle could have posted as I did. That one post shouldn't have carried more weight with me than the welcoming ones, but it did. Even though its 'diagnosis' of my role was totally wrong.

In psychological terms, I know that there are aspects of me which go back to childhood and which played a part in my response. There was also my awareness that I had probably posted at a bad time in the board's history, so had probably 'asked for' the negative response, even though my counsellor disagrees with my need to take responsibility for the actions of others ;-) Which is a fair point, and I'd ask those of you who are so negative to new posters and their motives to have a good look at YOUR OWN reactions and motives.

On at least one other thread on this board I have seen a good debate topic (IMO) being ignored in favour of criticising the OP by insinuation or unexplained dogmatic answer. E.g. the insinuation that the OP is telling his/her own story under the guise of a hypothetical situation; or a flat 'yes' or 'no' answer to a complex question, with no explanation of the reasoning which concluded in a 'yes' or 'no' answer.

It seems to me that this is not really a debate board. It's more of a survey board.

So, when there's a great topic (like the denial thread, IMO, or the why affairs happen thread), it isn't debated as a topic or principle. The accepted responses are 'yes, that happened in the affair which affected me' or 'no, that didn't happen in the affair which affected me'.

As a result of this 'survey' approach, people are more interested in knowing which side of the affair a poster is coming from, because then they can 'weight' that poster's contribution.

IMO, a debate board can't work as a debate board if it is encumbered by labels. Obviously, our life experiences influence our views, but we can think and empathise far beyond the limits of what has happened to 'us'.

Can't we?

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-03-2006
Mon, 10-23-2006 - 8:21pm

Thank you so much for your comments. I was beginning to think I must be insane for thinking people can debate in a respectable manner, bc no one else (well I shouldn't say no one bc there have been a few) has agreed that what is going on here is out of line for a debate board. There are some posters here who do want to debate, but others who might not have the skill and so they seem to just want to pounce on anyone who disagrees with them by bringing up all kinds of irrelevant points.

I really think the "Justified" thread is going well (much better than I had hoped). There are many BSs who are answering respectfully even though I know this is a sensitive subject for them. They are making some great points.

I'm kind of at a loss here. If I try to bring up a new question that I find interesting; something I've pondered, I'm accused of seeking attention and trying to get the board fired up. I wasn't even going to start a new discussion this week, but it seemed like the others were petering out. I even tried to start a more mild discussion (re: Carol Sherwood) last week, but it went nowhere.

I've considered seeing if anyone else would want to join me in starting a new debate board. That way, the ones who don't want to be asked tough or sensitive questions, could stay here and be polite and never disagree and the ones who want to debate could actually debate without it being inferred that they are creepy and "truly distrubing" (that's from the "Experience" thread in case you haven't read that one yet).

Anyway, I really do hope you'll hang around. Might be dangerous, though, bc now people are going to think you and I are the same person :-).

PS

BTW: Could you point me to your earlier post. I was going to try to find it, but it is so much easier getting the reference from the source.




Edited 10/23/2006 8:40 pm ET by ps25_4-5
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-12-2003
Mon, 10-23-2006 - 8:32pm

hi Pluto...you know, this debate board has been alive and kickin' for some years...i've witnessed some great, insightful, intelligent, stimulating, even aggravating debate...i've also witnessed some warm and touching renditions of others experiences...some cattiness here and there as well :)...sometimes the board is quite active, other times its not...often similar topics come up again and again...so yes, sometimes a simple "yes or no" response suffices (IMO).

this debate board thrives quite well despite that the majority "label" themselves...the bottom line, IMO, is that we are all similar and yet different, doesn't matter which "side" we come from.

hope to see more of you!

honey




Edited 10/23/2006 8:33 pm ET by honeynvinegar2003

    

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 10-23-2006 - 8:42pm

There are 1000's of debate boards on the internet. If you are seriously looking for one to hone your skills, you should check some of the others out. Even though this is a debate board, this is also a very personal subject and it does get *heated*.

I don't think the criteria to post here lists having excellent debating skills. We are not professional debaters, just people trying to discuss things that for the most part (not all, but most) have affected us in some way. Some of us do express ourselves better than others, but most of us are just us, trying to make sense of somethings.

I feel that if it is debating for the sake of debating someone is looking for, there are much better choices for someone.

2nd

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-21-2006
Mon, 10-23-2006 - 9:02pm
But 2nd - have you ever been to any of those other debate boards....ummmm...boring. Not too many posts...definately not to the degree that you can actually go back and forth with someone the same day. (at least not very often)
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-02-2004
Mon, 10-23-2006 - 9:09pm

<>

I completely agree.

I have ZERO interest in debating a very personal, painful time in my life with someone who is merely trying to improve their debating skills.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-19-2006
Mon, 10-23-2006 - 9:37pm

Hi PS and others on this thread

IMO, if we truly want to understand why affairs happens, and maybe get a grip on how to stop them happening, we have to debate all aspects of affairs.

I accept that it's easier to get a full and frank account from some sides compared to others.

I accept that some individuals will feel that they have suffered enough, without having their personal experiences examined. That's why I feel that, for a debate board, it's better not to say 'this is what happened to me, therefore this is how it is'. That approach can be dismantled by someone on the 'same side' who has had a different experience. Imagine what can happen if it is addressed with intellectual rigour and/or a different label.

Survey boards will take on board all personal experiences. But they are dependent on the respondents. Imagine a board which is predominantly from one ethnic or gender group. Does that board's survey give a true picture of the general experience of topic 'x' in both genders and all ethnic backgrounds?

Imagine a board which debates topics, issues and priciples, free from the posters' own backgrounds. Is there, perhaps, more opportunity for debate in there?

My first post on this board? Here's the link:

http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-ivallsides&msg=1433.13&x=y

The response from the OP was this (and I know why it affects me more than the supportive posts, but for the purposes of demonstrating the risks of posting here as a newbie it does the job):

http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-ivallsides&msg=1433.22&x=y

I haven't read the 'experience' thread. Thankfully, given the quotes here. However, given the effect that infidelity has on people, claims of 'creepy' and 'truly disturbing don't seem that unusual.

I take it that the people who threw out allegations that others are 'creepy' or 'truly disturbing' would be happy to have the same analyses given to their own posts? Ifnot, then they shouldn't give out those analyses, IMO.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-12-2003
Mon, 10-23-2006 - 9:43pm

my comments of "creepy" and "disturbing" are most definitely NOT personal analysis of another poster...those words were descriptive of MY personal feeling...i personally on very rare occasion get a creepy chill down my spine, its an intuitive *feeling* I get, perhaps wrongly, i admit that could certainly be, i surely could be misinterpreting...but it is NOT personal analysis of anyone, its an expression of MY personal *feeling*.

honey

    

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-27-2003
Mon, 10-23-2006 - 9:45pm

>>I take it that the people who threw out allegations that others are 'creepy' or 'truly disturbing' would be happy to have the same analyses given to their own posts? Ifnot, then they shouldn't give out those analyses, IMO.<<

I agree with your stance (it really shouldn't matter who we are i.e. BS, WS, etc., why we're here, etc.) I don't care, really. But please understand the creepy comments -- a lot went on (over and over and over again) with one particular poster who created a lot of havoc on the old AS board. If you were around then, I think you may feel creeped out too!!!

Anyway, I agree with your comments...

 

Pages