Hard time saying 'no'....

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-29-2003
Hard time saying 'no'....
7
Tue, 11-02-2004 - 4:04pm
Hi, I'm a 30yo married 7yrs to my dh...2 young dds. I have a horrible time saying no to my dh. If he thinks he 'needs' something - he is very good at rationalizing these things - I cave and say charge it.

This has been ongoing since the beginning. Early in the marriage, when we buckled down so we could buy our first house, we actually got our cc debt down under 10K. Ha! I dream that it could be so low now.

Dh is currently in an MBA program that costs tons of money, of course. Not an issue, student loans are cool - we have great credit. However, this summer there is an optional summer international trip/internship that he could go on & wives can go along. For us both it would be 6K - not including food, so another 1K at least for spending money. He (rightly) feels that this is once in a lifetime deal and we should do this. Him going without me is not an option for reasons I will not get into here. Needless to say, I am not very thrilled by his asking his grandmother for money for this trip. I am currently looking at not being able to make mortgage payment on time and he wants 2Ks for a down pmt on this trip by Dec 1. That is impossible - we don't have the money. But grandma always pulls through for him, I will wait and see what happens.

He feels I am not even trying to get the money to go - he has never been outside of the country. Where I, on the other hand, was a foreign exhange student in high school, and also an international study program in College. He sees this as not being 'fair', but will not say that. But my trips were long before we met, and obviously nothing better to spend my money on.

I see it as irresponsible to plan for a trip (even if he begs the $$ from his grandma) when we can barely make ends meet. And I do not see that happening in the near future. I really want to say 'yes' to the trip (I would also be going back the country where I lived for a year). This is keeping me up at night. He is constantly talking about who all is going on this trip, how much fun it would be, etc. In the back of my mind, I add, well their companies are paying for it, and we don't even get tuition reimbursement from yours.

We have had (many) talks about how I am *not* the gatekeeper...but we would be in backruptcy if I am not a gatekeeper at least a little. I chatted with him about our situation, and that the reality is - I am trying to keep us out of bankruptcy until he is done with school(another 15 months) so we can get the student loans. He still prattles on about this international trip with the MBA program. Argh! A little reality please!

And the to top it all off, we just learned the health insurance through the company is going up $80/month and reduced benefits, higher copays....great! Two kids with asthma...this will be fun.


This is mostly a vent - obviously - I cannot really talk to anyone else about as they will think I am hoping for money or a handout!

Sola

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-22-2003
Tue, 11-02-2004 - 5:04pm
Hi I just wanted to welcome you to the board, and give you some cyber <> for your situation.

How does your husband want you to get the money to go? Is there a way to sell things in your home to make the money for the trip? Does he have a solution to paying for this that doesn't involve him asking his grandmother for the money? Would the money need to be paid back to her? How would your mortgage be paid for while you're gone? Would you have to leave work to go? Is his company even willing to let him have the time off of work to take this optional study program abroad?

These are just a few questions I have from reading your post, and not to sound hard but it sounds like your husband needs to understand he has a wife and children to support, and if he is taking an MBA he will probably have a good job in the future which will allow you to travel when your kids are grown. He needs to stop trying to stay up with the Jones' on his course and understand his responsibilties.

Life isn't always fair. We're not all born into Trust Funds, and if has made a commitment to have a family, then he needs to be realistic about what he can and cannot do. Seems like he wants all his cake and eat it too without thinking of you and your children's well-being.

The thing I did with my exH (note the ex!) when he was spending our money and sinking it into his company, leaving me with no money for groceries, or spending the money from my company for expenses and leaving me stranded in Chiapas, Mexico without a way to pay my hotel bill (don't even get me started) was I sat down and put everything in a spreadsheet and showed him all the expenses we had outgoing every month, this can now include the raised health costs, and what we owed and future expenditure expected. The numbers were for a moment for him a wake up call.

I don't know you both, but he sounds terribly selfish and regardless of whether you've been abroad or not, he needs to see that this might not be the best time to plan this in his life. Ask the "Love & Money' board about this, they may have some real advice.

I guess I'm a little jaded since I had a husband who thought he deserved everything, what did he deserve a divorce from me.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Tue, 11-02-2004 - 5:51pm
Have you figured out how you will get out of debt, how long it will take, how much interest you will pay over that time, and whether or not you will ever be able to save for your children's education or your retirement?

I had a similar problem with my ex. I once put a car (it was used, but it was a car!) on a credit card because dh whined and pouted. Yes, we needed a car, but we could have gone with a something older and cheaper if he wasn't so insistent and I didn't have a long history of giving in. Thankfully, we got enough money in the divorce to pay off all our credit cards.

What I wish I had done was really put my foot down and said no. I wish I had made a plan to get out of debt and focused on our spending. I felt like all the financial decisions were mine, but I never really took control of the situation and made it work out. I wish I wouldn't have done all that shopping just to avoid facing I was in a bad marriage with a teenager.

Is grandma on your side of the family or his? If it's his, I'd say leave that between him or her, but that you don't feel comfortable putting any of it on the credit card. If you've figured out how long it will take to get out of debt, and you add the cost of the trip to that, you can calculate how much the trip will really cost. It's possible it could be nearly twice the actual cost if it goes on the credit card. And if you won't be out of debt for 15 years, then no retirement savings and no kids college fund.

I would suggest getting some family budgeting and getting out of debt books from the library for free. Figure out a spending plan and a debt repayment plan, and try to get your dh to be part of evaluating what a reasonable budget is and what sacrifices you are both willing to make to get to financial security.

One thing that sounds similar in your marriage to mine and my ex's, is that he is begging you to get something and you are caving. This is not a husband-wife relationship (at least the financial discussions). It's a mother-child relationship. That's what kids do. They beg and beg and beg until they get what they want. And they keep going until they get it because they know in the end they will win. Have you considered marriage counseling?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 11-03-2003
Tue, 11-02-2004 - 6:15pm
Hey everybody!

I know this is supposed to be a support board rather than an advice board, so I will just share what I would do in this situation:

If I could not pay my mortgage or other bills on time, or had credit card debt, NO WAY would I borrow money to go on vacation to another country!

I realize it's an option for the MBA program, but it's not mandatory, so I see it as a vacation .

My husband is a Naval officer, and he's been everywhere in the world! But I certainly don't whine that I deserve to go to all those places! I love to travel as much as the next person, but I save my money and have a much better time while I'm away, knowing that the trip is paid for.

I would set some very strict priorities:

1. safety/health

2. pay the bills

3. get rid of debt

and focus ONLY on those things before I made any other goals such as traveling or making any other purchases.

I hope this helps a little! Good luck to you and remember to trust your instincts!

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-19-2004
Wed, 11-03-2004 - 10:14am
Wow- this post woke me up this morning....... reminds me of the crap my DH used to "try" to pull with new vehicles. I've said no more times than yes and in the end he said he was glad I did.

If I were you I would do anything I could to sabbotage this idea. By all means, I would put my foot down!!! By the way, are your kids going too?!!! I think 6K is a lot for that trip...plus expenses?!! What about work??

If it were me- I would tell him I had no desire to go and take young kids there for a whole summer. I would try to convince him to go later on when the girls were older and it would be much cheaper to go for a week or so with some SAVED money. I would also tell his grandma that you don't want to do it and not to give him the money! (You could tell her you don't even have the mortgage payment and she might see that it's not a good idea.)

No- I wouldn't let my DH go alone either. Why is he so concerned about these people that are going?

Sorry to ramble- This is just my opinion, and I wish you the best - please keep us updated I'd love to know how this turns out!! Nicki

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-29-2003
Wed, 11-03-2004 - 10:51am
"If I were you I would do anything I could to sabbotage this idea. By all means, I would put my foot down!!! By the way, are your kids going too?!!! I think 6K is a lot for that trip...plus expenses?!! What about work?? "

It is a just a high-end trip really, no the kids wouldn't go. It is about a 2 week thing and they all visit a bunch of companies and it is a learning experience more than in internship. But the alternative is an independent study thing which he will do if he 'has' to (insert big sigh here).

And I completely understand the car thing. We have had more new cars than the years we have been married. Always some reason on how we 'need' a new truck or whatever. Sigh. I got upset about a month ago about him complaining about me not being exciting about this trip, and I told him if he didn't trade in for a new car every year or two, we would have no problems paying for this trip. Then I got 'well you said it was okay'. NO, I told him he had to keep a monthly payment under a certain dollar amount I did NOT say it was okay to go upside down on a loan by thousands of dollars. Use some common sense! My bad, apparantly.

Thanks,

Sola

Avatar for cl_phocid
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 11-03-2004 - 11:20am

"It is a just a high-end trip really, no the kids wouldn't go. It is about a 2 week thing and they all visit a bunch of companies and it is a learning experience more than in internship. But the alternative is an independent study thing which he will do if he 'has' to (insert big sigh here). "


As soon as *anyone* gives me a *big sigh* I know I'm being manipulated!

All my best,
Danni

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-30-2003
Thu, 11-04-2004 - 10:40pm
Sorry-I just had to laugh when I saw this--

If I did this with my DH, he'd think I was up to something. He'd start quoting Shakespeare at me, "Methinks thou dost protest too much." (I sometimes wish I hadn't broadened his horizons by introducing him to some of Shakespeare's plays,lol)

Anyway, back to the matter at hand-

Sola, do you have a *written* budget? One where you can hand it to him and say, "Gee, sweetie, I think this trip would be wonderful, but I'm having a *really* hard time trying to figure out what we can cut from the budget to make it happen. I'm really uncomfortable borrowing money from your Grandma for this-I'd rather make it on our own." ?

Sometimes it's the only way to get through. My DH isn't a 'budget' guy either, but if he really really wants something I hand it to him and say, without TOO much sarcasm, "Well, if you can make it happen, I say OK." Numbers don't lie (much).And, unfortunately, either your DH will see it or not.

Sounds like you have a lot on your plate-

Good luck-

Lisa