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| Mon, 05-02-2005 - 11:25pm |
Hi Ladies,
(I will be posting this message on Debt Q and A because I need as may suggestions as soon as possible. Thanks)
I rarely ever post although I do still lurk here at least once a week to keep me “grounded”. Last fall I finished paying off $5,000 of cc debt and 15,000 of student loans. It was incredibly difficult and I really had to work hard to do it, so I don’t ever want to be in debt again unless it’s for a house.
Since then I’ve been asked lots of questions about how I worked my way out of debt (by friends and family). One of the people that I’ve been really trying to help is a good friend of mine. Lately she’s made a few comments about how the credit card companies lured her in and it’s their fault that she’s in debt. I just don’t get how an intelligent woman can blame a company for her spending.
See, I’ve been trying to show her that to get out of debt you need to face your reality. You need to face the consequences of your actions (ie. over-spending leads to debt) and that you need to take responsibility for your actions and “own” them before you can work your way out. One of her arguments is that the cc���s made it too tempting, let her get herself into too much debt and then jacked the rate because they knew they could.
I agree with some of her argument. Yes, the cc’s should not be able to jack your rate up to 29%. That’s a crazy huge amount of interest. The cc’s aren’t the problem, though. Spending money that she doesn’t have and barely affording the payments before the increase got her into debt. I mean, yes the cc sounded great but nobody forced her to buy all that “stuff”.
She’s about to lose her home and is seriously on the brink of a bankruptcy. How can I show her that she needs to take responsibility for her actions? She keeps saying that she’s counting on me to help her but how can I help someone who just won’t stop hurting themselves by digging herself deeper and deeper into debt?
What made you “see the light” and want to become debt-free?
Thanks
Lynne

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It's not about debt and getting out of debt for her, it goes deeper than that. The root problem is blame and responsibility. You can't make someone see their role in their own demise (be it due to debt, drinking or anything else), they have to want to see it. If she doesn't want to see it, she simply won't.
My advice is to not focus on fault and responsibility or anything to do with the past. Focus on what has to be done now, whether that is filing bankruptcy, putting her house on the market before it's foreclosed or whatever, some kind of action plan she can digest and agree to implement. But if she can't help herself, then there is not much you can do. Some people, no matter what their issue is, will not change until they hit rock bottom and it doesn't sound like she thinks she is there yet. You can give her information and books to read, you can try and educate her, but getting her out of this hole is something she has to want. When I turned things around it wasn't because someone told me the right things, I knew that shopping and using the credit cards when we shouldn't have was not smart and only made the financial problems worse, I always knew better, but I wasn't ready to face the truth until I was ready.
I no that what your saying is true. It's just hard to watch those we love self distruct. She won't put the house on the market or do any of the things you suggested (Edit: I've already suggested these ideas and she won't budge). She keeps saying that everything will be fine, but I no it won't. That's why I wanted "tips" or ideas on how to help her to she the reality of her position.
Thanks for you advice.
Lynne
Edited 5/3/2005 12:46 am ET ET by lynnegirl24
I think it's marvelous that you are trying to help your friend.
I have to say, sometimes you just can't fling facts at someone drowing in debt - it's like trying to tell someone not to fall in love! It doesn't work because it's not a _logical_ choice! "Look what you're doing to yourself" just brings on more shame and guilt and for some people, those exact feelings are the things that lead them to overspend in the first place. Retail Therapy. :-)
I would suggest a non-judgemental approach, where you say "I" alot instead of "you":
"I did these steps to get out of debt."
"I found it best to cut up all my cards."
"I set a goal to get out in 5 years and worked out a monthly plan"
It might be different for other people, but it's easier to face it when you feel safe and supported, I think.
My DH & I saw the light when he lost his in June 2001. It was the first time we ever sat down and added up all the balances and payments on our accounts: credit cards, student loans, car, mortgage, equity loan and monthly bills like utilities. It was very frightening. We owed over 40,000 on credit cards. We sold our house and paid off everything we could. Had enough left over to put a down payment on a smaller, more affordable house. We have focus now. Retirement plan, college savings plan and our debt payment structure includes paying off our mortgage in 10 years.
But it really was the financial crash and scrambling not to burn that prompted us to do somethign about it. It was like having a financial epiphany, but a terrifying one. DH & I were both raised not to think about money. Live for today, which ends up screwing tomorrow.
I recommend a book by Suze Orman called "The Laws of Money, the Lessons of Life". There is a great section about being honest with yourself. I would also recommend introducing her to this board. Reading the stories about other people helps you analyze your own behavior. It also helps you realize that you are not a bad person. We were so ashamed when we first realized how much in debt we were.
I am not sure if you can really help your friend right now. It doesn't sound like she is ready to really make the tough decisions that comes with paying off debt and living within your means. It sounds like she is waiting for a fairy godmother to make it better and she thinks you can do it for her. I worry that this could end up hurting your friendship if you don't "save" her. As my grandmother used to say, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink." You can turn on the faucet, give her a cup and be supportive, but in the end only she can decide to change her life.
Good luck,
Sandra
Hi there Lynne.
You are getting some fantastic advice here from these ladies.
There is nothing you can say or do to your friend to help her see the truth of her situation.
All my best,
Danni
Hello and let me say that I don't often post on this particular board, but I've lurked for awhile. The folks here are absolutely great. I don't mean to belittle anyone's situation, but this board did make me realize that I can be debt-free sooner than I thought. It took me SERIOUSLY reviewing my retirement status (and other things) and I promised myself I won't be having those cc ghosts and any other debt chasing me or my family to the grave. Facing the hard cold facts pushed me along. There was a time I didn't open anything that resembled a bill. Only made matters worst. Going to bed and waking up all the time thinking about debt is no fun and certainly no way to live. Don't get me wrong it's a struggle, but I feel 100% better knowing that I'm in charge and know that you do too now. I only hope your friend will get to this point before reaching rock bottom. She has options and doesn't even realize it. Just keep posting here and maybe someone can give you some advice that your friend will adhere to. But like the other poster said - she has to want it for herself - looking in the mirror is sometimes (IMHO) one of the hardest things to do.
P.S. - Congrats to you on realizing what you had to do. God Bless and take care.
Danni,
Your post and the others in this thread touched on one of my favorite things about the DSG: It is an oasis of personal responsibility in the midst of a culture that discourages it at every turn. This is such a rarity and one of the reasons I keep coming back.
Cheers to everyone here!
Wendy
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