A new, pro-circ perspective, today?

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-02-2009
A new, pro-circ perspective, today?
96
Sat, 10-10-2009 - 12:32am

We NEED advocates for circumcision to debate the issue on this board.


The current media pressure in America to circumcise is fueled by the African 'studies'. The AAP and the CDC in the US are, by all accounts, due to publish their opinion very soon. I ask all of you to encourage pro-circumcision friends or acquaintances to post here and give their honest opinions. Please tell them we are here to debate, but we will all be understanding and willing to listen.


This is an opportunity to truly make opposite opinions influence us, if we are prepared to listen. This goes for both sides of the divide. Here is the link. For my part, I will quote one section and comment on it:


http://kobason.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!C873246EA6369396!28800.entry


"In the UK rates are much lower and have been falling for decades. They stand currently at 16 per cent, according to the Health Protection Agency (HPA). But the UK Royal College of Paediatrics has no plans to follow its sister organisations in the US and Australia by setting up a taskforce to review the evidence.


Professor Terence Stephenson, president, says HIV is uncommon in the UK and there is little heterosexual transmission within the country, and no evidence that circumcision is protective in men who have sex with men. There is a vaccine available against cervical cancer currently being rolled out in a national campaign, which is expected to significantly reduce the toll from that disease and the incidence of herpes in the UK is substantially lower than in the US. "As a public health measure, I doubt if the college or the Department of Health would be pressing hard for the introduction of neonatal circumcision. To carry out 300,000 a year in the UK on the NHS would be a huge cost – money which could be used for other things." If a parent asked for information about the benefits of circumcision, he would spell them out, he says. But there are drawbacks, too, including the discomfort caused by the procedure, the need for antibiotics and, rarely, complications such as bleeding."


Secular, male infant circumcision is nearer 2-6% in the UK. I suspect the 16% figure includes adult males. Also, Stephenson's response is clearly that of a medical professional who is required to offer a measured, objective reply. British parents  have no such restrictions and would point to their life experience, denying even a single benefit of infant circumcision.


And - just as an aside - it's my understanding that Australia is currently advocating NO infant circumcision. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


Christopher




"Education is the discovery of our own ignorance." Will Durant


"Almost any manmade phenomenon is explained by tradition, inertia - or both." Anon




Edited 10/13/2009 8:55 pm ET by cl-islaywhisky

CL - Circumcision Debate


"Education is the discovery of our own ignorance.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-26-2009
Sat, 10-10-2009 - 1:20am

Well, if you need pro-circers, there's a lady over on the Pro-c board who thinks it ought to be legally mandated because... wait for it... she thinks it looks better.


Why anyone else feels that strongly about cosmetic surgery on my son's penis escapes me, but perhaps you could invite her over. Hey, maybe she'll sway people and we can then move on to requiring boob jobs for our daughters.

pregnancy

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-07-2008
Sat, 10-10-2009 - 7:45am
Yes, it seems Australia will not advocate routine circumcision. It is interesting to see how the US puts so much more weight on to benefits which those in countries that don't circumcise consider trivial. I've always asked/wondered if the world was innocent of circumcision and we fell upon this knowledge if it would gain any support. I seriously doubt it would.
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-02-2009
Sat, 10-10-2009 - 8:11pm

Elsa, I have already approached the CL of the Circumcision Support board to ask him if it he thinks there's a chance some of the posters there might be prepared to visit us. We exchanged a few friendly e-mails and he himself did agree to lurk here from time to time to assess, in his opinion, our willingness to debate without rancour. (He had developed an antipathy for this board after posting here regularly some years ago and came up against invective and obduracy.)


I assured him we don't behave that way now; we simply want to debate


CL - Circumcision Debate


"Education is the discovery of our own ignorance.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-02-2009
Sat, 10-10-2009 - 8:22pm

"I've always asked/wondered if the world was innocent of circumcision and we fell upon this knowledge if it would gain any support. I seriously doubt it would."


I agree. The world would obviously want proof of its value to be as convincing as the discovery of penicillin. Without this, the idea would be laughable.


Christopher


"Education is the discovery of our own ignorance." Will Durant


"Almost any manmade phenomenon is explained by tradition, inertia - or both." Anon


CL - Circumcision Debate


"Education is the discovery of our own ignorance.

Avatar for frankly_speaking
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2003
Mon, 10-12-2009 - 6:28am

"And -

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-27-2009
Mon, 10-12-2009 - 11:44am

"...They are trying to get legislation through that will make it illegal...."

Frank, this is great news. Where could I find more about it?

Furthermore, how are they handling the religious aspect of infant circumcision, which gave a lot of grief to Sweden and Finland when they tried to impose similar limitations?

Regards,

Federico.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-07-2008
Mon, 10-12-2009 - 5:19pm

I don't think the situation is as good as you are saying. The Tasmanian Children's commissioner does want to ban non-medical circumcision. That is true. In December 2007 the AMA president expressed support for that possibility but he also added that a religious exception would be necessary for their support. You all can read the article here: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/09/2113665.htm

I should point out that the AMA has a different president at this point I think it's something that rotates periodically. I wouldn't be surprised if the new president shared similar views. Based on this a legal review was commissioned, you can all read the review here: http://www.law.utas.edu.au/reform/documents/CircumcisionIssuesPaperA4toPrint.pdf

They present some options at the end and it can't be stressed enough that this is only an exploratory type of thing and there will be a recommendation made. One of the primary questions being asked is what are the liability possibilities to doctors. I would suspect some restrictions being recommended on par with what the Swedish did and possibly ensuring liability, that is a kid can sue. But if you think it's going to be suggested that it should be ban (with or without a religious exception) I'd say dream on. As much as I'd like to see that I'd be shocked if that was the recommendation. If they couldn't do it in Scandinavia they won't be able to do it in Australia. Not yet anyway.

This is a positive step but I seriously doubt it will end with prohibition.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-02-2009
Mon, 10-12-2009 - 9:12pm

"This is a positive step but I seriously doubt it will end with prohibition."


Sadly, I'm inclined to agree with you.


My only hopeful thoughts are based on the fact that Australia was


CL - Circumcision Debate


"Education is the discovery of our own ignorance.

Avatar for frankly_speaking
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2003
Tue, 10-13-2009 - 11:51am

"Frank, this is great news. Where could I find more about it?"


There has been quite a bit about it in the media over the past year.

Avatar for frankly_speaking
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-02-2003
Tue, 10-13-2009 - 12:20pm

"I would suspect some restrictions being recommended on par with what the Swedish did and possibly ensuring liability, that is a kid can sue. But if you think it's going to be suggested that it should be ban (with or without a religious exception) I'd say dream on. As much as I'd like to see that I'd be shocked if that was the recommendation. If they couldn't do it in Scandinavia they won't be able to do it in Australia. Not yet anyway. "


They have already gone well beyond what Sweden has done.

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