What are we doing here?

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-04-2006
What are we doing here?
4
Fri, 01-29-2010 - 10:31am

I have been wondering about this for some time. I will attempt to explain myself clearly and hopefully my exhausted brain won't stop me!

This issue is an incredibly emotive one. It's easy to get carried away in arguing against it, especially when there is personal experience with it.

However, does this actually do any good?

We don't seem to get a lot of pro-circ or even pro-parental choice people around here, and I know Christopher is doing as much as he can to encourage more people here. But when we do get someone, they don't stay long. They find themselves unable to argue against the anti-circ position and so leave. This may be seen as a victory here but is it really? It is my assertion that those people do not change their opinion one little bit. Instead they leave thinking of us as militant, attacking and unwilling to listen to reason. They learn nothing. The cause does not advance.

Let us remember what our true cause is. Those of us who are debating against circumcision are doing so (I hope!) in order to help future baby boys to not have to go through this. The only way to do this with the limited power that we have (none of us, I think, are lawmakers!) is through education. We need to spread the facts about what the foreskin is. We cannot force anyone to make a decision we agree with. Neither do we have the right to make them feel bad for their choice. What we can do is give them the facts in a way which allows them to hear it and absorb it. This requires holding back our judgement and just giving them information and support in their decision making. This is what we are here for.

This isn't supposed to come across as lecture, merely my thoughts on how we should be approaching this. There is no point in condemnation of doctors or parents who have baby boys circumcised. It does nothing but alienate them. It drives a gulf between us and that cannot lead to more knowledge or fewer babies being circumcised.

Rose, loved for life by Meghan and mama to Michael Lloyd (24th May 2005) and Ella Morghan (5th Jan 2008). Co-parenting with André and René.


 SoVT


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Rose, loved for life by Meghan and mama to Michael Lloyd (24th May 2005), Ella Morghan (5th Jan 2008) and Jolie Bryna (12th May 2010). Co-parenting with André and René.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-27-2009
Fri, 01-29-2010 - 11:48am

"....However, does this actually do any good? ...."


I am sure it does, although not in its "official" structure. Yes, there is no debate or, when there is, it is fleeting and does not last long. However, people come to this board, look around, lurk, do not participate, but nevertheless, READ. And that is what counts, that they read information that otherwise, in the USA, is not that easily available in the mass media without requiring deliberate online searches.



"...They learn nothing. The cause does not advance...."


Again, we do not know that. They usually don't tell us. But in some cases, the seed of the doubt may have been planted. And that is no easy feat to be poo-pooed. Often, that is all that it takes to implement a change in behaviour or belief.



"...What we can do is give them the facts in a way which allows them to hear it and absorb it. This requires holding back our judgement and just giving them information and support in their decision making. This is what we are here for...."


I think that

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-04-2006
Fri, 01-29-2010 - 12:12pm

Yes, we do give facts here. However, many times I have seen them being given aggressively. That does not help the cause.

"There is no point with regards to parents. With regards to doctors it is a different story. The positive (in our view) change of mind in any parent that participates/lurks in this board will inevitably have to include a disagreement with the medical profession that in the US continues to peddle this practice."

What does this have to do with condemnation of doctors? They are people too, and just as likely to be victims of the misinformation in the culture. American medical books seem not to include much information on the foreskin at all, except how to remove it. They need cultural educating as much as the next person. How exactly will condemnation of them help people stand up to doctors? The only thing which will do that is arming them with facts.

Rose, loved for life by Meghan and mama to Michael Lloyd (24th May 2005) and Ella Morghan (5th Jan 2008). Co-parenting with André and René.


 SoVT


Lilypie Baby Ticker


preview image


 Cgtx


Rose, loved for life by Meghan and mama to Michael Lloyd (24th May 2005), Ella Morghan (5th Jan 2008) and Jolie Bryna (12th May 2010). Co-parenting with André and René.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-27-2009
Fri, 01-29-2010 - 3:53pm

".....What does this have to do with condemnation of doctors? They are people too, and just as likely to be victims of the misinformation in the culture. American medical books seem not to include much information on the foreskin at all, except how to remove it. They need cultural educating as much as the next person. How exactly will condemnation of them help people stand up to doctors? The only thing which will do that is arming them with facts....."


I disagree. Since they constitute the medical profession, in a role with responsibility to know what they practice, advice the patient or , in the case of RIC, his parents, accordingly, and ultimately provide the service (and charge for it), they cannot be compared under the same light with their clients, they cannot be seem under the same understanding and forgiving light as we can see a parent.


They are in charge of medical delivery and it comes part and parcel with their duties to overcome any "victimization by misinformation in the culture". I would not accept a physician who believes that you can catch a cold because you are out in the cold without a scarf (like millions of people in this culture still believe), instead of being exposed to a virus. Why should I tolerate

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-04-2006
Fri, 01-29-2010 - 4:05pm

I don't think you understand what I'm actually saying here.

I'm not disputing the one of the facts which needs to be available to people is that doctors may not be informed on the issue.

However, I am speaking more of the hatred I have seen here directed against doctors. I have also seen people calling anyone who circumcises stupid or a pervert. The kind of language I have seen on this board, imo, goes directly against the purposes of the board and is going to damage the cause. I know of people who will not come here because of this kind of language. If people do not come here, we cannot give them information.

This is an impassioned plea for us here to provide a more welcoming environment, with less hate and more facts. I cannot stand the way this board is at the moment and if it does not change I, like many many others, will not be able to come here anymore. It affects me this much and I have not had a son of mine circumcised and neither have I ever contemplated it. Those who are going to make this decision are even less likely than I am to stand this sort of thing.

I fear that if we do not change, this board will become nothing more than a place where anger and hatred is spouted and which has no real impact on anyone's decision to circ or not.

Rose, loved for life by Meghan and mama to Michael Lloyd (24th May 2005) and Ella Morghan (5th Jan 2008). Co-parenting with André and René.


 SoVT


Lilypie Baby Ticker


preview image


 Cgtx


Rose, loved for life by Meghan and mama to Michael Lloyd (24th May 2005), Ella Morghan (5th Jan 2008) and Jolie Bryna (12th May 2010). Co-parenting with André and René.