hyper-hubby
Find a Conversation
hyper-hubby
| Tue, 06-15-2004 - 10:36pm |
Hello Ladies, my hubby's doctor refered him out to see an endo for hyperthyroidism--Yah!,but can't get an appt until august 23rd--boo! (we're gonna try to get him into my docs office to see if we can get a sooner appt) but the poor guy has had problems with heavy sweating, anxiety, lots of diarrhea, and being warm. I was wondering if any of you have advice on what we can do to help until the appointment. I've read that broccoli can slow down the thyroid function. I just feel sorry for him and hope that there is something we can do to help him out in the meantime. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks for all you ladies do! --lisa

Pages
Maybe I'll just have to load him up on broccolli?! ha, we will see. I hope someone has some sound advice for what we can do in the meantime. At least he doesn't have a swollen thyroid like me.
Thanks for all you do Cathy, and I'm glad to hear about your new doc, sounds like things are on the right track now. --Lis
"Specific Remedies :
This condition has one of the best examples of a specific remedy, Bugleweed(Lycopus virginicus or L. europaeus). It is a useful relaxingnervine but in addition has a sometimes dramatic effect in reducing thesymptom picture associated with hyperthyroid conditions. I have seen nofigures on thyroxin serum levels in patients using Lycopus, and thuscannot say that improvement is due to the herb directly impacting the hormone, but something is definitely going on.
One possible prescription :
Lycopus spp. 4 parts
Leonurus cardiaca 2 parts
Scutellaria spp. 2 parts
Crataegus spp. 1 part to 5ml of tincture three times a day
for associated insomnia :
Valeriana officinalis
Passiflora incarnata equal parts as tincture to 5-15ml 1/2hour before retiring.
Actions supplied by this combination :
Nervine Tonic (Scutellaria spp.)
Nervine Relaxant (Lycopus spp., Leonurus cardiaca, Scutellariaspp., Valeriana officinalis, Passiflora incarnata)
Cardio-Vascular Tonic (Crataegus spp.)"
Lisa - the amazing thing is the amount of typos this guy has in his article!! :) But it may be worth looking into some of the specific herbs to see what they do. I don't have tmie to do that tonight but if you check up on them, let me know. I also have a new book on herbal medicine and I'll look in there and check in with you tomorrow! Cathy
I also came across some info from Mary Shoman's website on about.com about hyperthyroidism posted by a man that had discussed maybe a lack of copper and certain foods to avoid and foods to eat. He talks A LOT about nutrient deficiencies--but I can't find what kind of credentials he has, he also says that its his theory, but its the most info I've come across on natural treatment to hyperthyroidism. The food list is: Foods to Avoid, Dairy. Excessive calcium to magnesium ratio increases rapid heart reate and tremors. Garlic. Excessive zinc depletes copper. Iodine containing foods. Until copper is built up. & Licorice. May be toxic to the adrenals and thereby interefere with the sodium/potassium pump. ( I have NO idea what is meant by that) Than Foods to Eat: Beans, Crab, Lobster, Shrip, & Nuts. --But wouldn't Crab, Lobster & Shrimp have iodine in them naturally because they are from the sea? Or is there a difference in foods naturally containing iodine versus Iodized salt, etc.?
I just feel so sorry for my husband. He sweats like crazy when he hardly does a thing, he's very warm to the touch, he's had problems with anxiety, and he's going to the bathroom A LOT.
Everybody's experience with thyroid disorders is different though. I think that the Bugleweed will help with the hyper symptoms, his family puts a lot of weight into herbal remedies & vitamins and have had a lot of success with it. Now when I get sick or start feeling a cold come on I get loaded up with vitamin C, zinc and other things. It can make a difference.
Thanks for you help, let me know what else you might come across.
This is that guy I didn't know who he was. His name is John Johnson and was listed by about.com. (mary Shoman's site) He has done all of his own research. Here's some info from his site: My views on health are a little different from most peoples'. I don't think of using nutritional supplements to prevent and treat illnesses as "alternative medicine". I think that it's pure science. The allopathic medicine (treating symptoms instead of correcting causes) that AMA physicians practice which relies nearly completely on drugs and intervention is what I call "alternative medicine". I don't use homeopathic remedies (although I've tried many), acupuncture or acupressure, or herbal therapies. These treatments may have benefits, but my belief is that the most powerful method we have to help the body to heal is to provide it with the essential nutrients that it needs. I believe that our bodies are self-healing and there are no drugs, remedies, herbs, or doctors which can heal the slightest thing. My core belief is that if we provide our body with the materials, energy, time, and rest that it needs, it will heal itself. Very simple. Essential nutrients and rest. When I get a cold I don't take Echinacea or golden seal. I just eat less, rest, and let it run its course. I want to give you two lists: First, a list of all the supplements which I have taken during my recovery and which seem important to suppressing hyperthyroidism. Each supplement I take I've tested and re-tested many times to make sure it makes me feel better.
Second, I want to give you a list of supplements I've experimented with many times and have concluded affect me adversely. I would recommend that if you are taking supplements to examine each one very carefully. Correct food choices are very important. It's possible that consumption of high zinc foods like meats and not enough copper foods like beans, shellfish, and liver may increase hyperT.
RECOMMENDED SUPPLEMENTS:
Copper (6-10 mgs. of amino acid chelated copper). I have experimented by taking up to 15 mg a day and am now taking 8 mg. I felt no difference between 8 and 15, but I recommend no more than 12 mg a day. If you only take one supplement make sure it's copper--I believe that it's the critical deficiency in hyperT.
Iron--works with copper and is essential for correction of anemia and hyperT. Take 18-36 mg a day, depending on your iron levels.
Sulfur--I took 2 tablets of MSM (methylsulfonylmethane, 500 mg.) per day. I think sulfur is essential for copper metabolism and seems to be involved in several inhibitory processes which may suppress thyroid function.
Silicon. From horsetail.
Boron (6 mgs. a day). I used Boron throughout my recovery and now believe it is vitally important in recovery from hyperT.
Trace Elements (An ionic trace element seems best, colloidal next best-- take the recommended amount).
Calcium/Magnesium (I've experimented with everything and found Solaray's Calcium/Magnesium Citrate works best for me--6 capsules provide 1000 mg of cal and 1000 mg of mag--most supplements give you more calcium than magnesium but I think the extra magnesium is important in controlling the rapid heart rate. The cal/mag seems to control the heart problems and prevent bone loss which happens in hyperT, but doesn't seem to help you get over hyperT. I took up to 36 capsules a day when I was really sick. Calcium is reported to decrease cellular sensitivity to thyroid hormone, while potassium increases sensitivity.
B-1 (200-500 mg a day). B-1 (thiamine) seems to be the critical B vitamin for copper utilization. A B-1 deficiency can cause inflammation of the optic nerve where is exits the back of the eye. B-1 and copper deficiencies may be the cause of eye involvement and protrusion in Grave's. My endocrine textbook says that the eye involvement is definitely not due to excess thyroid hormone.
B-2 (100-200 mg a day). Seems to assist copper and boron utilization and helps eye problems.
Niacin (100-200 mg a day). Seems to assist in copper utilization and helps hyperT. Start with a small amount (25 mg) and work up. Causes a harmless flush when you're deficient. Niacin is not replaced by niacinamide.
More protein--amino acids transport minerals to the cells, so proteins are vital. Try to eat the high copper proteins like beans etc. and eat less of the high zinc proteins.
More fats--to increase hormone production, especially estrogen, which is a thyroid suppressor.
Yogurt supplies vitamin K which may work with boron to produce estrogen and testosterone.
POSSIBLE NEGATIVE SUPPLEMENTS: Many of these essential nutrients may be in excess in hyperthyroidism can be reduced until the severe symptoms subside. Once the thyroid and heart rate slow, they may be re-introduced with caution. It's possible that other deficiencies may occur if these are discontinued for too long, so be careful.
Iodine (or Kelp) This is necessary for thyroid production, but it may be necessary to limit iodine intake until copper is built up to avoid serious hyper symptoms. Once copper is built up and the pulse drops (or if you go hypo), resume normal iodine intake.
Manganese--May need to be avoided for a long time. If your hair analysis shows low manganese, wait until you've been taking copper for awhile, and then take a small amount. Be cautious.
Selenium--Might be wise to not take this until copper is built up some, since selenium helps the T4 to t3 conversion. However, selenium is essential to thyroid health and should be taken as soon as it is tolerated.
Iron--Iron in excess is a copper antagonist and will deplete copper levels and make hyper symptoms worse. Take about 5 mg of iron for each mg of copper.
Zinc--This seems to be the major stimulator of the thyroid and should probably be avoided until the hyper symptoms subside and the heart rate comes down. However, zinc is a very necessary nutrient and needs to be supplemented in small but increasing quantities as you recover. Low energy can indicate that zinc is needed.
B-6--This seems to be the major B vitamin which increases utilization of zinc. Stopping intake of this slows down the utilization of zinc which is already in your body and seems to make a big difference in slowing the thyroid.
Vitamin C (over 500-1000 mg a day) High amounts of C seem to aggravate hyperT, possibly by interfering with cal/mag and copper absorption.
Excess vitamin E (take 400 IU or less)
Multiple vitamin/mineral supplements--a problem because of zinc, iodine, and manganese.
B-Complex--a problem because the B-6 increases zinc utilization.
Ginseng (contains zinc and possibly stimulates progesterone production).
DHEA (seems to increase progesterone production.)
Pregnenelone (same as DHEA)
L-Carnitine
L-Arginine
L-Ornithine
Kotu Kola
Co-Q-10
Ginkgo Biloba
Testosterone stimulating herbs
Pine bark extracts like Pycnogenol and Phytonol
Grape seed extract
Garlic supplement
Any body building supplements or protein powders (milk and eggs contain growth hormone which may stimulate the thyroid)
Progesterone, especially synthetic forms such as Provera. I have not experimented with these but they seem to increase thyroid production.
Birth control pills--very often are synthetic progesterones.
FOODS TO AVOID UNTIL YOUR COPPER LEVELS INCREASE:
Fruits
Green leafy vegetables, like lettuce, spinach, chard, etc.
Iodized salt and foods with iodine.
Garlic and other high selenium foods.
All dairy products except butter--there is too much calcium and not enough magnesium in dairy products. Butter seems to be beneficial.
All white flour products--bread, pasta, etc. (may contain iodine as a preservative)
Once you have been taking copper for awhile, you should be able to resume consumption of these foods without a problem.
Many people have asked me if I know of any health professional who could help them with their hyperthyroidism. This nutritional approach to these diseases is completely new and it seems there are very few doctors, endocrinologists, or alternative practitioners who are aware of this approach. On the other hand, you need a doctor for anti-thyroid medications and blood tests so you can control the serious symptoms until your health recovers. Don't be mad at your doctor because he or she doesn't have the information to help you. They are doing the best that they can with the information that is available to them.
On the other hand be very careful. Doctors don't know about the connections between hormone supplementation and thyroid effects. Most don't know that Provera or other synthetic progesterones stimulate the thyroid and possibly cause hyperthyroidism. Also be aware that alternative health professionals may give incorrect information. I was told of one alternative practitioner who prescribed thyroid hormone or tyrosine (a thyroid hormone precursor) for hyperthyroidism, which makes the problem much worse. Your best strategy is to educate yourself. The people working at this site are devoted to research and sharing our findings. This group effort is so much more powerful than working on your own, so be a part of the group.
My recommendation is that you take control of your disease yourself, get help from a nutritionist or nutritionally oriented doctor if you can find a good one and to work with our group at this site so that we and many others may benefit from our work. I hope to hear your input.
John L. Johnson
I'm sorry I know it's a lot of information, but maybe it can help someone else too!
--Lisa
And thanks for posting such a great article. I think it can help both hyper and hypo and it's valuable info! Cathy
Well, he's been raised using vitamins, so he isn't opposed to it, but he hasn't made a decision yet. So now he has some free time I hope he will read through the info and choose something. Just increasing the copper could help. He was really interested to hear about that. (The first sign of copper deficiency is white hair and he's had 2!) But the Bugleweed has been intensely researched and I think its a good place to start. We'll see. He agreed that maybe it would be something to try. I'll let you know. --lisa
P.S. Now I'm not sure about any interactions with blood work, he won't be having any more blood work until his endo appt--unless for some reason he goes back to his MD, but his MD is an osteopath and is into natural/herbal & vitamin regimins. But what seems to be scary to me about hyperthyroidism is that it can't be cured only regulated (by western medicine) So, if the Bugleweed could have a dramatic effect on the way the hyper thyroid acts then I'd prefer that instead of RAI or surgery. I do understand that PTU and other meds can be very helpful, but I would prefer a natural approach rather than a chemical approach. (--at least with hypo thyroid you can take natural thyroid supplements)
The only interactions I know that could show up in bloodwork would be cholesterol due to anti-oxidants, I know they show up like that, but his last blood work draw to check the TSH level was at least a month ago and he still has 2 1/2 months until his appointment. They will probably want to recheck and run some tests before treatment--wouldn't you think? 3 months is a lot of time things could change. ?? --lisa
Edited 6/20/2004 2:33 pm ET ET by girlie_1977
"Natural" thyroid is actually dessicated pig thryoid hormone so that seems kind of gross to me! Sorry to all you Armour thryoid takers - I don't mean to offend and I know in some cases, that's the only thing that has worked. It works better in some cases because it actually contains both T3 and T4 where synthetic thyroid hormone only contains T4.
Back to your husband, I was reading an interesting thread on another thyroid board at www.thryoid-info.com all about the interaction of supplements and hypothyroidism and they were saying that L-carnitine has been shown to slow down thyroid activity. Some posters there were saying they had a very negative effectw hen taking that supplement. I've taken it for a while and haven't noticed any negative changes. But it may be something for your husband to consider, as well ....... if that's the route you take. Just wanted to pass that on. Cathy :)
I just want to know as much as I can so we can make the best decisions for us, but I don't think he's having thyroid storms so maybe the MD would be the best place to start, then if we have to we will wait for the endo. I dunno... (oh, I found a product a juice from a tahitian/hawaiian plant called noni that had some great testimonies about people who were suffereing with thyroid disorders found relief while using it but ivillage removed my post--the webmaster thought I was advertising a brand name--if you are interested i'll fill you in)
But I did find some negative interactions on the Bugleweed--
http://healthinfo.healthgate.com/GetContent.aspx?token=e0498803-7f62-4563-8d47-5fe33da65dd4&chunkiid=21621
Bugleweed should not be combined with thyroid medications. It may also interfere with diagnostic procedures that rely on radioactive isotopes to evaluate the thyroid.
Interactions You Should Know About
If you are taking thyroid medications, do not use bugleweed.
If you are undergoing tests of your thyroid function, do not use bugleweed except on physician advice.
Here's some more info:
Bugleweed (Lycopus virginicus), from the mint family, is a native of North America. It is closely related to the European herb called gypsywort or gypsyweed (L. europaeus). For medicinal purposes, these two plants are often used interchangeably. The leaves of bugleweed are long and thin and grow in pairs from the stem. Small whitish flowers grow around the stem at the base of each pair of leaves.
The juice of bugleweed can be used as a fabric dye, and it was reportedly used by gypsies to darken their skin, which may be the origin of the common names applied to the European species of Lycopus.
Bugleweed also has a long-standing reputation as a medicinal plant. Herbalists have traditionally used bugleweed as a sedative, to treat mild heart conditions, and to reduce fever and mucus production in flus and colds. More recently, bugleweed has been suggested as a treatment for hyperthyroidism and mastodynia (breast pain).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What Is Bugleweed Used for Today?
Several very preliminary studies suggest that bugleweed may be helpful for treating mild hyperthyroidism.
Hyperthyroidism is a condition in which the thyroid gland releases excessive amounts of thyroid hormone. Symptoms include weight loss, weakness, heart palpitations, and anxiety. Test tube and animal studies suggest that bugleweed may reduce thyroid hormone by decreasing levels of TSH (a hormone that stimulates the thyroid gland) and by impairing thyroid hormone synthesis.1–5 In addition, bugleweed may block the action of thyroid-stimulating antibodies found in Grave's disease.6
Note: Self-treatment of hyperthyroidism can be dangerous. Physician supervision is necessary to determine why the thyroid is overactive to design a specific treatment plan.
Bugleweed may also reduce levels of the hormone prolactin, which is primarily responsible for the production of breast milk.7 Elevated levels of prolactin may also cause breast pain in women; based on this finding, bugleweed has been recommended as a treatment for cyclic mastalgia (breast tenderness that comes and goes with the menstrual cycle). However, due to its effects on thyroid hormone, we do not recommend that it be used for this purpose.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dosage
The dosage of bugleweed must be adjusted by measuring thyroid hormone levels.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Safety Issues
The safety of bugleweed has not been established. Long-term or high-dose use of the herb may cause an enlarged thyroid. Bugleweed should not be used by individuals with hypothyroidism (low thyroid hormone) or an enlarged thyroid gland. Pregnant or nursing women should also avoid bugleweed because of potential effects on their children as well as on breast milk production.
Bugleweed should not be combined with thyroid medications. It may also interfere with diagnostic procedures that rely on radioactive isotopes to evaluate the thyroid.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interactions You Should Know About
If you are taking thyroid medications, do not use bugleweed.
If you are undergoing tests of your thyroid function, do not use bugleweed except on physician advice.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
References
1. Kohrle J, Auf'mkolk M, Winterhoff H. Iodothyronine deiodinases: inhibition by plant extracts. Acta Endocrinol. 1981;96:15–16.
2. Auf'mkolk M, Ingbar JC, Kubota K, et al. Extracts and auto-oxidized constituents of certain plants inhibit the receptor-binding and the biological activity of graves' immunoglobulins. Endocrinology. 1985;116:1687–1693.
3. Auf'mkolk M, Kohrle J, Gumbinger H, et al. Antihormonal effects of plant extracts: iodothyronine deiodinase of rate liver is inhibited by extracts and secondary metabolites of plants. Horm Metab Res. 1984;16:188–192.
4. Sourgens H, Winterhoff H, Gumbinger HG, et al. Antihormonal effects of plant extracts. TSH- and prolactin-suppressing properties of Lithospermum officinale and other plants. Planta Med. 1982;45:78–86.
5. Brinker F. Inhibition of endocrine function by botanical agents. I. Boraginaceae and Labiatae. J Naturopath Med. 1990;1:10–18.
6. Auf'mkolk M, Ingbar JC, Kubota K, et al. Extracts and auto-oxidized constituents of certain plants inhibit the receptor-binding and the biological activity of graves' immunoglobulins. Endocrinology. 1985;116:1687–1693.
7. Sourgens H, Winterhoff H, Gumbinger HG, et al. Antihormonal effects of plant extracts. TSH- and prolactin-suppressing properties of Lithospermum officinale and other plants. Planta Med. 1982;45:78–86.
Pages