Don't ask, Don't tell policy

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-15-2004
Don't ask, Don't tell policy
33
Tue, 01-18-2005 - 12:11am

I thought this may be of interest to some of our veterans.....


If you aren't a member of HRC yet, go join! (am I allowed to say that?LOL)


Sandr

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-29-2004
Wed, 01-19-2005 - 12:27am

This is an area that I have a lot of expertise in. Every unit I served with, I was the EEO officer.

I believe that the policy does need to go away. A persons sexual preference has no bearing on the ability of our soldiers to serve our country.

A unit's performance is a direct relationship to the command climate that begins at the top of the chain of command. Racial discrimination, sexual harassment, fraternization, favoritism, etc....are matters that must be given the utmost attention from the powers to be. You can add sexual orientation to the list of EEO policies the same as we would for any corporation willing to make a change for the better. A weak commander who fails to apply the EEO policies from Headquarters and down at every level of command, is destined to fail when any policy is taken lightly.

There are some things that you do need to understand about people who serve in the military; we all fall under what is called the Uniform Code Of Military Justice (UCMJ) it's the code that unit commanders follow on a daily basis.... This code clearly defines the behavior of all soldiers. Violating the codes can range from minor infractions, demotions, dis-honorable discharges and possible jail time.

Unfortunately, there have been numerous incidents of inappropriate behavior which have given gay people a bad name, and we call this behavior unbecoming of a soldier. I'm not sure if anyone remembers the incident that occured at Fort Hood Texas, back in the 1980's? There was a sting operation at an on-post public restroom where more than several gay (10?) soldiers were caught on tape enjoying each other. The news media had a hayday with this, and it occurred before the don't ask don't tell policy was enacted.

I'm sad to say that as an officer, I had to out process a lesbian soldier for being gay. It tore me apart inside, but there really was nothing I could do for her. Yes, the rumors were running around the barracks about her, the commander heard of them and basically was a cool dude about it all and no one pursued her. That much I was happy about. Aviators are a more layed back bunch of soldiers, kinda like party people. Anyway, the girl got to be so blatently open about her sexual preference, that her and her girl friend decided to have sex with the door to their barracks room wide open. What could we have done to protect her? Her behavior was unbecoming of a soldier!

Sadly, this incident led to the death of my dearest and best Non Commissioned Officer (NCO). On the night of a unit party, he came to me snickering because this soldier wanted to confront me about something important. In absolute dis-belief, she came to me and begged me to save her career on the basis that I was gay too! She swore that she had seen me at a gay bar in Frankfurt Germany. Totally untrue, since I was married and was a strong Christian at the time. There was A GIRL look alike on post, and people would swear that they saw me and I ignored them? I think that was who she saw.

My NCO was laughing at me, and I was upset because we had this rule together and he broke it by letting her come to me; plus now I was afraid that I could get kicked out myself... I went into the unit lounge and asked for a beer. My commander insisted that I attend the party. My platoon never saw me drink and soon the beers lined up that night. My NCO drove me home, and when he left that was the last time I saw him. He knew that I was upset, and hid the fact that he was drinking. If I had known, I would have walked home, and ordered him to stay over at the barracks. If the Don't ask, Don't tell rule was not there, I believe things would have turned out differently. His death tore me up and I was grounded for three month's. Every time I walked into the hangar and saw our Apache's, I would remember us on top of the rotor mast laughing at each other, I would break down and cry. Sorry about the sad story...

You have to always put things in perspective. People are people, gay or straight, people make mistakes. Bill Clinton never lost his job over inappropriate behavior. They were doing the same thing in the oval office that the men at FT. Hood were doing. At that point I felt that every soldier dishonorably discharged should have been given their careers back. After all, he was our leader, and the same rules should apply to our Commander N Chief. I believe the UCMJ should govern all our Presidents since they are our Commander N Chiefs! Why not, they are the ones ordering us to go to war? :)

Seriously, throughout our military history, you can find many soldiers and commanders who have been dishonorably discharged for violating these rules, and we should never over look these facts. Gay people are not going to have an impact on whether we win or lose a war. It's the conduct and professionalism of all our soldiers that will allow us to prevail. For me I believe in three words; Duty, Honor, Country.

It's sad that those three words are now becoming a burden on my heart. The very rights and freedoms that we fight for, will never be given to gays, lesbians and transgendered people. We are all Americans and we are not free.

Enough, I swear you can get me going with this one.....lol

halo

hugs

halo

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-24-2003
Wed, 01-19-2005 - 1:53am
Halo, it could not be said any better than what you just said.
I proudly served my country because I believe in duty, honor, and country too.
As long as this country remains free I have hope that we can someday be free.
Thanks for the beautiful post.
Hugs,
Laurie

My web pages
http://homepage.mac.com/lauriedav/PhotoAlbum1.html http://hometown.aol.com/didoangst/myhomepage/photo.html
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-16-2004
Wed, 01-19-2005 - 10:36pm

Cat honey....


Of Course,

mom to 4 kids and in love with the most awesome and beautiful woman in the world!

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-29-2004
Wed, 01-19-2005 - 10:44pm

Hi,

I don't remember who asked what OPSEC was, so here's the answer: Operational Security

halo

hugs

halo

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-16-2004
Wed, 01-19-2005 - 10:51pm

Halo,


Thank you for sharing your story and your thoughts.

mom to 4 kids and in love with the most awesome and beautiful woman in the world!

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-15-2004
Wed, 01-19-2005 - 10:59pm


Hey Carol, Yeah, I still like you, I like hearing the stories that you and Laurie share about your military lives. I tried to get into the Army Reserve, but couldn't because of a medical condition. I'm what is known a child of a veteran. But I tell ya, I would have loved being in the miliatry. But, because of the uniform, I would stick out like a sore thumb.

I think I would have some of the women in my bed just about every night, of course, me and the one's that wanted an evening's romp, would have to be quiet! LOL! But, I can agree about gays and lesbians in the military about being quiet, I think that we make the best people when it comes down to being unified. We know how to stand together and give the proper respect. If we don't do it for the jerk-off that's in the White House, then we give the respect and unity to each other. Just imagine, if the idiot, had all of the gays and lesbians in the military were gone, oh my Goddess, what a thought! So, I think that Bushhead (that's what I call Bush)had better back down and let well enough alone!

Anyway, that's my two cents.

 


Hugs,


Sebastian


 


http://www.facebook.com/sebastianbruce

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-29-2004
Wed, 01-19-2005 - 11:45pm

Well said Carol,

"I see that this kind of paradigm shift can also work with sexual orientation, but it will take time, training and sensitivity. The military is a mirror of civilian life with some minor adjustments. (lol) If you look at it in that light you can see that as the civilian community becomes more tolerant of sexual identity, the military community will also".

It can and some day will happen. Only, I want to see it happen in my life time. I began my military career on active duty in 1982, and saw the changes first hand. I will say that the Army was better prepared for a sexual revolution, unlike the Navy. You guys had it tough.

Funny story,

There was a male NCO in my platoon who constantly cut down women in the military, and I tolerated his ignorance for a long time. One day he crossed the line, and I stepped up to bat. "Name the sport, anytime, anywhere and I will be there!" He chose basketball. The platoon showed up and the battle was on. He was rough from the beginning, and I was knee deep in a game of street ball. I went outside the three point line, and popped in four baskets before he realized I knew how to shoot. The rest was history. He pushed me backwards while I made the winning basket. He apologized after, and said I've never seen a woman play like that before. The moral is, that we can change their minds, when we step up and bat.

Soon or later, we will have to stand up and fight back to change their minds...

halo

hugs

halo

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-24-2003
Thu, 01-20-2005 - 12:15am
Oh yeah, that was Cat,
I meant to get back and answer and then I forgot.
Laurie

My web pages
http://homepage.mac.com/lauriedav/PhotoAlbum1.html http://hometown.aol.com/didoangst/myhomepage/photo.html
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-24-2003
Thu, 01-20-2005 - 12:33am
That is a good story halo.
I also have one to share. I joined the Navy back in 1978.
I had a new guy working under me. I assigned each person their duties for the day. He said I don't take orders from women, I am Baptist and it is against my religion. So my CPO asked him if her wanted to be the first man written up for mutiney in over a hundred years.
the guy said, no but I bet she can't even do one push up. So the battle was on... let me add he was a tad overwieght... I did 20 push ups to his 6.
I sent him to remedial pt. and made him work with me side by side to show him how much more work I could do than he could. i worked in Aviation Electronics, but we also had to load and calibrate all the aircraft jacks. When he would start to sweat and step back wiping his brow, I stepped over shaking my head and finished his jack load test. He finally appoligized and said he really had a new respect for women.
I am glad he did not mention basketball...I suck!
Hugs,
Laurie

My web pages
http://homepage.mac.com/lauriedav/PhotoAlbum1.html http://hometown.aol.com/didoangst/myhomepage/photo.html
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-29-2004
Thu, 01-20-2005 - 1:57pm

I love war stories don't you? Just remember, were going to make some new war stories later!

hugs halo

hugs

halo