May Book Discussion -- Kindred

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Registered: 04-23-2006
May Book Discussion -- Kindred
34
Wed, 05-24-2006 - 7:38am

Hey all!


Hope you had to time to read the first book in our series, Kindred by Octavia Butler.

 PPCLSIG.jpg picture by CalyD44

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Registered: 02-15-2004
Thu, 05-25-2006 - 11:25am

{{{{Pam}}}}

Pam, if there's one thing I never will forget is the brutalization of my ancestors, nor will I forget the horror and sickness of the holocaust. I've always kept the idea of being in denial about the sickness and disease of ignorance towards anyone that hates another person because of the color of their skin, or their hertiage, away from myself.

I've been called an Oreo cookie by some kids that used to live next door to me. And that was only because of the very, very light skin of my grandparents, on my father's side. I've been called an Oreo cookie by many people, just because I love caucasian women. My best friend, doesn't understand why I don't like black women, I just don't. I've had a relationship with a black woman and all she could see was the color of other people's skin.

She carried such hate, why was I with her? Well, I'll say, I guess I had to learn a lesson. I love my black sisters, but I don't want to be involved with them.

I can totally agree with you on not forgetting and moving on.

Hugs!

 


Hugs,


Sebastian


 


http://www.facebook.com/sebastianbruce

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Registered: 02-15-2004
Thu, 05-25-2006 - 12:07pm

How as a GLBT person does one hang onto one's integrity as a human being in the face of negative feedback given to us by the larger culture.

Whether you're out or in the closet, you'll continue to bump up against those stereotypes and those people who believe you are "less than".

You didn't fail in your mission, Pam, I just didn't understand what you were saying.

I have to define integrity for myself, please forgive me.
Integrity-Steadfast adherence to a strict moral or ethical code. I have many stereotypes heaped upon me. I live in a very high crime area, where shootings are almost common place and where I live there are mainly black young males. Being male myself, as you ladies here know me, I'm seen,irl, as being violent, oppressive to women, hateful of anyone other than black and mistrustful of the police. That's the stereotype that I live around.

Which on the contrary, I'm a peace loving man, I uphold women and hold them in the highest regard and am always polite to them. I can't hate anyone, it takes too much energy, and I do love myself. I love any and everyone that is different from me, even though they don't give me the same luxury, the love and peace I extend will always come back to me. As long as I don't commit any crime against myself (attempted suicide) or commit a crime against anyone else, then I have no reason to mistrust the police

When I go to my own bank, or a different branch, I do not appear to be American, even though I am a born and bred citizen of the United States. I'm looked at and treated with suspicion and mistrust. Even though I willingly give the teller my state id, I'm still scrutinized as being someone that will steal from myself. After all of the annoying waiting, and the fearful looks. I leave that branch of my bank and then I do the correct actions. ie, calling the bank manager and documenting each contact.

Even around my own race, I can show my intelligence by just listening and knowing the true facts and not listen to hysteria or gossip. But at the same time, being polite and maintaining a certain level of self-control. But when I can release the anger, do so appropriately. Of course, there are many ways of dispelling stereotypes without being lowering myself to anyone's level.

Humbly and repectfully, speaking I've always been told to think well of myself. That way, when someone wishes to try to bring me down with them, I just smile and listen to what they have to say and continue with my day. Even the most ignorant person has something to say, but that doesn't mean I have to feed into it.

But there are those days when the human being wants to come out and be on the same level, and sometimes, I throw back to them, what they threw at me. And that's just to let them know how it feels.

Hugs!

Sebastian

 


Hugs,


Sebastian


 


http://www.facebook.com/sebastianbruce

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Registered: 05-25-2006
Thu, 05-25-2006 - 12:50pm
I had a tough time wrapping my head around this book. It was very unrealistic in my mind, in many ways. The arm thing really bothered me..not because she left it behind, but because there seemed to be no...repercussions. How does a woman lose an arm, and there's no real attempt to find the arm, etc?
Although the dynamics between Dana and Rufus were interesting, that power play...they didn't ring true to me. And even the peek at slavery seemed...cold. Not interactive as much as observed. I cannot imagine that someone who has lived in the 20th century got whipped and seemed to move onto the next thing....
I dunno. So many parts of the book just frustrated me.
It seemed very cold and impersonal to me, and I had a tough time finishing it. Maybe it's just me, but I wasn't all that impressed.
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Registered: 04-23-2006
Thu, 05-25-2006 - 7:38pm

Dana was able to hang onto that core of herself during the most horrendous of times.

 PPCLSIG.jpg picture by CalyD44

Avatar for nursepam2000
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Registered: 03-30-2003
Thu, 05-25-2006 - 11:34pm

>Actually, they still think I'm a freak but I know it's their issue, not mine, and I'm not going to try to convince them otherwise.


I could say the same thing both to you here and in response to Sebastian's post just below this one:

Avatar for nursepam2000
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Registered: 03-30-2003
Thu, 05-25-2006 - 11:44pm

Great definition of integrity Sebastian.

Avatar for nursepam2000
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Registered: 03-30-2003
Thu, 05-25-2006 - 11:58pm

Hi SaltySnack and welcome.

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Registered: 02-15-2004
Fri, 05-26-2006 - 12:10am

Thanks, Pammy. LOL!

Hugs!

 


Hugs,


Sebastian


 


http://www.facebook.com/sebastianbruce

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Registered: 03-25-2003
Wed, 05-31-2006 - 1:35pm

We’re still in May, so I’m not late! :-)

Kindred – What can I say about this book. I know I wouldn’t pick this book up if I were browsing through the bookshelves. I would have missed out on a good storytelling. The book is a fast read but a few sections of the book seem to drag along. When I start feeling like the story is dragging, Ms Butler put that dum, dum; dum, dum; dum, dum music from JAWS in the back of my head with her foreshadowing. The book seem “dated” compare to the internet. For example, the first chapter where Dana came back from the past for the first time and she and Kevin were trying to research how to write a freepaper. Kevin brought back all their books from their library. I stop reading at that point and went looking for the date this book was published. I was thinking, why didn’t they just use the internet. When I saw when this book was published, I decided to suspend my preconceptions and go where her pen leads me.

The title is interesting. Kindred reflect Dana’s relationship with Rufus; Kindred also apply to Dana’s relationship to the rest of the slave household. To me the book is about resiliency. How do you keep from letting a man die because you hate what he is doing to you and the people around him? Can the knowledge of a couple of generations’ survival control your behavior? Knowing her survival depends on keeping a boy/young man who will turn into a brute alive is a strong incentive. But once she knew the beginning of her lineage was born, she would not put up with his intention of raping her. What if Hagar wasn’t born yet? Would she still kill Rufus? How long does being resilience last? Alice’s lasted till her babies were taken away from her. Why did Sarah’s resiliency last longer? Dana is like Chief Brody. She’s trying to make life safer/better for the slave household. She’s even tried to make Rufus a better man by sharing the norms of her century, unfortunately he’s like his father. Rufus cannot help being swallow by the social norms of his time and turn into a shark.

It was difficult for me to think of something to bring to the book discussion. Ms Butler’s gave many issues to pick from; racism, slavery, inter-racial marriage-relationships, illiteracy, strengths, social norms, hubris and how in the world did she traveled from two different centuries! I can’t seem to bring them all into a neat little page so I’m writing all the questions left unanswered to me. I’m left with wondering if Dana and Kevin have a family of their own.

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Registered: 03-25-2003
Wed, 05-31-2006 - 1:45pm

1. How did you ultimately feel when you finished reading the book?

After I read the book, I got lots of questions of my own. Like Did Dana and Kevin have a family of their own? Did they write about their experience? Did they get a movie deal out of it? Did Dana think if she might have stop other relatives from being born with Rufus death?

2. Did it change any of your thoughts on slavery?

I don't know. My thoughts on slavery was it's never good. I still think that way so I guessed no, it did not change my thoughts on slavery.

3. How did Dana both explode and transcend the slave stereotypes of "house darkie"?

See, I didn't see Dana as a house darkie. I don't remember Dana's physical description as a darkie or a light skin person. I thought she was in the house because of Rufus' mishaps.

4. Why do you suppose that Butler chose to have Dana married to a white man in the 20th century?

I wonder that myself. Was it as compare and contrast to Rufus and his dad? I'm not sure.

5. Was it difficult for you to read about how the slaves were treated?

A little bit but I know they suffer through their time.

6. Dana and the other slaves spent a lot of time hiding their true selves. Did this resonate with you as a GLBT person or did you feel this was a different experience entirely?

I would say it was different and the same. :-)