Do all Lesbians Hate Their Moms?
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| Thu, 08-24-2006 - 6:03pm |
Apologies for the "eye-catching" discussion title - I just wanted to make
sure I got some replies as I am desparate for answers.
My daughter, age 26, came out to me and her Dad when she was 17, no surprises, we
suspected she was gay since adolescence, we embrace and continue to embrace her
sexual orientation - we just want her to be happy.
Problem that breaks my heart as a mother - she hates me!
Since she took her most recent girlfriend (last 3 years), she has become verbally abusive toward me,talks to me as infrequently as possible, is painfully mean to her younger 13 year old sister, no longer showers (she says soap is bad for her) and smells extremely bad, quits job after job, never misses a chance to tell me how I've screwed up her life (even after 12 years of private school PLUS 4 years of college (tuition and room and board).
I have searched many places for information on Straight Mother - Lesbian Daughter relationships and dynamics looking for clues as to why she has rejected me and is acting so unlike herself.
Does anyone have general ideas about how lesbians and their moms tend to get along? Have I lost my daughter forever just because I am straight?

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No, not all Lesbians hate their moms.
In fact, I am Queer - been out since Im 13 (am 29 years old now) and had a hell of a time with my mom when I told her about it - her being very strict/religious. She didnt agree with my lifestyle but loved me and we worked through it. And no, it wasnt easy - there was even a few months where she didnt speak to me (actually almost a year) but we got through it
What strikes me odd though is that your daughter's behavior seems to have changed within the last 3 years you say?
Here's my guess:
1. Mental illness - She has become abusive, mood swings, wont shower/bathe, wont hold a job? That sounds like a severe form of depression - or like a schizophrenic.
2. In an abusive relationship - Whats her relationship like with her other half? Is it possible shes in an abusive relationship and spinning out? Acting out with the people she's most secure with? (Not that thats any damned excuse mind you)
3. Spoiled? - Maybe she keeps quitting her jobs because she feels like you and Dad will pick up the slack? I mean, you paid for her schooling, and from what you say you've been very supportive etc - maybe she's just been coddled and now acting out.
What saddens me is that she's abusive to a sibling. Your other daughter doesnt deserve that kind of treatment, so Id suggest some kind of boundaries be set up. YOU take more control and dont let your daughter be abusive. End of story
You can either ask her why she's behaving this way, or demand respect and tell her that she has no choice and HAS to knock it off (and NOW) or you'll cut her off. She's a grown up, and knows better and dont you think you deserve better than that?
Put your foot down.
FYI - Id NEVER mistreat my mother.
I just saw this and had to say I came out at 23 and am now 32 ...my mom is in her 70's and she is one of the most important things in my world.I love my mom with all my heart and well have never hated her or acted like it...
No I wasn't a perfect child and did rebel...all I can say is that maybe your daughter will grow out of this.I hope so for her sake( and yours)...
best of luck,jo
Hi gurillagirl, my name is Sebastian Bruce or SB.
I'm a transgender, ftm. Meaning female to male (I'm not taking anything for granted).
I don't hate my mom one bit. Before I transitioned, I loved and still do love my mom very much. She's going through a health issue right now, she has the first symptom of Alzheimers, dementia. Even though it drives me crazy that she's dealing with this disease, I love her even more.
When I came out to her, it was a very tense time between the two of us, but I never lost my love and affection for her. Pam, is probably correct in her diagnosis of your daughter.
Getting her medical attention is the most important thing for her right now.
Hold on, things will get better for you and the rest of your family.
Sebastian
Hugs,
Sebastian
http://www.facebook.com/sebastianbruce
Thanks again for all the responses and insight.
I have a question for Sebastian Bruce regarding the FTM - female to male transition and
possible hormone use/side effects.
3 years ago when my daughter went on vacation with us to Mexico, (when she was still talking to me) she tried to buy some Testosterone tablets at a market - the store vendor would not sell them to her and I did not see the whole transaction - just that he asked us to leave the store and later my daughter told me why.
Question for Sebastian - Would taking Hormone supplements like Testosterone make someone
moody, cranky, and mean-spirited (much like I was when I tried to take Birth Control pills)??
Could it be that my daughter is taking Testosterone? Where do you get it? Does it have
to be prescribed? How would I know if she was trying to transition to male? She won't
discuss these things with me anymore.
How did YOU know you wanted to transition vs. living as a lesbian?
When we used to talk, my daughter and I discussed these things - and I always expressed
my deep concern for her health - as I personally have had very bad experiences with
hormones and hormone supplements - I think they can be risky for one's health and I know they have made me not myself in the past.
Thanks for your response(s)...
Hello there, this is Sebastian.
The taking of testosterone by anyone involves many risks. I will be speaking for myself alone. I can't answer for anyone that is injecting, has patches for, has testosterone gel, or testosterone creme, or taking testosterone pills. I can only answer for me. I do not endorse, encourage or suggest that anyone take any hormone without the approval of their doctor, or long contemplation. <------Disclaimer. Sebastian Bruce.
The side effects of Testosterone are this: (remember, my personal experience). I'm taking testosterone shots as a part of my transition from being a female to male, because it's my personal choice. Not all transgenders (I can't speak for the entire community)female to male transgenders have hormone therapy. My reasons for taking t or testosterone is so I can be, appear, and feel like a man. Even though my body is physically still female, I choose to change it to what I think it should be. Yes, I still have my female reproductive organs, including my breasts. (Please forgive the bluntness of my answer, but you ask a question, and I'm trying to be thorough in my answer).
From my personal experience, Changing some things about my physical being: Side effects: ie, facial hair, body hair, body fat distribution. When I say body fat that means, no more curves, lol! Just a straight form of a man. I have the body odor of a man, which means, I smell like testosterone. Even though I do shower, I smell like a man.
Before, I chose hormone replacement therapy, I had the "appearance" of being a man. But I smelled like a woman. I really can't say how testosterone affects the mind, for me, I know that I have a predispositon for mental illness. I'm diagnosed as bipolar with Depression. I go through my cycle, or the symptoms of bipolar disorder. How testosterone affects me during my cycle, is changable. It is not a cure nor is it a contributing factor to any negative emotions. When I'm experiencing a very negative emotion, such as you have described, it's because I'm going through it naturally. Nothing is inducing my normal human emotions.
It's only when I allow those emotions to get the better of me, is when I know that I'm in trouble.
I'm not a medical doctor, but I do believe that estrogene has the same effect on a woman's body while she's taking Birth Control Pills. But before, my hormone therapy, I experienced the natural estrogene that's in my body.
Since I don't know your daughter, or you, personally, I can't comment on what your daughter may or may not be taking. But to be sure, take her to a doctor, have blood drawn and find out, medically.
I went to a clinic in Philadelphia called the Mazzoni Center. There blood was drawn from me, to check my level of testosterone, which every female has half of. When it was concluded that my levels of testosterone was normal and other health issues were brought to light, and after many days before, and the day before, my hormones were prescribed by my doctor. Even the day after the thoughts are still there, but I don't regret doing it. It's my choice.
As was suggested, very gently, please have her see a psychologist, and go with her. She's a minor, and she does have rights, but you need to know how to deal with her and her obvious issues.
When I came out as a lesbian it wasn't so much as living as a lesbian, it's what I am/was. It wasn't a choice, it is as I am made to be. It has always been in the back of my mind, that I'm living in a female's body, but psychologically, emotionally, psychically, and spritiually, I'm male. I never ran from my inner feelings, I didn't understand, to be honest, it took a major change, ie. car accident, for me to sit with myself, and sit still long enough to let everything come to the forefront of my mind, that I am a male.
When I came to iVillage, specifically, to Lesbian Life, I've felt comfortable and was accepted as a lesbian, which is how I presented myself. My maleness, or butchiness was coming completely through during the 4 years that I've been a member of this community.
Several members have told me, either on the phone, in real life, or here, that they have sensed a male prescence with me. I'm still loved, but some things about how I relate to the ladies have changed, and that's by my own choice, ie, flirting. Even though I still do with some of the ladies here, it's to a minimum. And from one member, I understand that Gigi is missed. I can't switch from being Gigi to Sebastian, that wouldn't be fair, or being true to myself. And not to mention it would be confusing to the ladies here. Some ladies, still call me by my female name. for me that is exceptable, until I post something to the contrary, I will continue to respond to Gigi. But, I'm being adressed as Sebastian, which is acceptable also.
I have always and always respect each and everyone here.
There's always a health risk taking hormones be they estrogene or testosterone. Both of which are too many to list. I know that I have health issues that prevent me from taking a full shot of testosterone. I'm taking half shots every two weeks. And that's the safest thing I can do for the time being. Six months from now, when the effects are becoming more obivious, more facial hair, deeper voice, muscular, etc. Then, I will receive the full shots for the complete and full effects of my transition. The removal of my internal and external female reproductive system, will occur afterward, now remember, it's completely my choice. Each move I make with my body, is well thought about far in advance, even and up to the very day of removal. Please understand, I love everything about being a woman. I just don't want to be untrue to myself. Understand this also, my core inner being will always be female, that will never change. Even if I live, think and feel like a man.
Hopefully, I have answered some of your questions and helped you understand my transition process clearly. If you wish to know more, polite emails will be answered.
Thanks!
Sebastian Bruce.
Hugs,
Sebastian
http://www.facebook.com/sebastianbruce
Hi there!
I am jumping in here, I know that you had addressed that question to Sebastian and he gave you some wonderful answers and my answer is probably not what you were looking for but I wanted to throw it out there for you. I also take testerone shots, I had a total hystertectomy at a very young age and have had a difficult time with regulating hormones artificially so to speak. I take all three, estrogen, protesterone and testerone ( I am sure that I have mangled the spelling of all three so please forgive me there, the english language is sometimes a challenge for me :) I take the first two orally and I have monthly shots of the third. I take a minimal dosage of the third it is mainly for energy and bluntly sex drive, etc... as Sebastian said our bodies normally produce some where as they found out that my body quit producing everything!! If I do not get my shot I am a little sluggish but that is about the only side effect I have from that now if I don't take my estrogen then there is trouble, my g/f calls them my nice pills... lol... I am not sure if this helps any at all but I do know that after my hysterectomy when I had no hormones in my body at all it was not a pretty scene. I was not a nice person and I was very irrational, it was like watching another person acting in my body and I had no control to stop it... Good luck with everything!!! Take care.. Brenda
Brenda
Sebastian,
Thank you ever so much for your very honest reply. Information like this, from
people actually living through these experiences is so much more valuable and humanistic
than sifting through the tons of self help books at Borders regarding GLBT issues.
Thanks also for Brenda's reply regarding hormones and her experiences.
As a mother, all I want is for my 26 year old daughter to be happy, healthy, and
a positive contributor to society. After the incident in Mexico in which she
tried to secure Testosterone from some flea market vendor, I became very frightened
for her health - both physical and emotional. I did manage to get her to
therapy WITH me as part of mother/daughter relationship work, but then
we had a major setback after she came over to my house without me being there
to bootleg copy some CD's (not the first time she's taken things from my home while
I'm away)
I asked for my key back (as she is 26 and does not
live at home) and that ended our therapy progress. It's such a tough tightrope
to walk as a mom - letting your children know you love them, while setting
appropriate boundaries.
Anyway- she has complained in the past about having periods and reproductive
system as a lesbian - she feels it is unfair and unnecessary. I do agree with her,
BUT I also know that (as Brenda states) having a hysterectomy will wreak havoc
on hormones.
I am glad to hear that there is some hormonal treatment that is medically supervised
so at least if something is negatively impacting your heart, blood pressure, kidneys
or whatever - there will be medical oversight to identify and fix the problem.
I will do some more research to see if there are Dr's who do this out here
on the West Coast.
I do not understand her current logic - that antidepressants are an attempt
for men to control women, but that buying Testosterone from a street vendor
in Mexico is safe and o.k.?? Antidepressants as well as hormones are both
manufactured by drug companies - yes, largely run by men - but why would one
be o.k. and the other not?
I am beginning to suspect that part of the reason my daughter does not want to
talk to me (in last 3 years during her current relationship) is that her current
girlfriend wants my daughter to be male - does this happen in GLBT relationships
often? The few times I've met her, she uses male adjectives to
describe my daughter - "Doesn't he look handsome?" "Isn't he cute?" while
my daughter still identifies as female and calls herself a feminist, but maybe
that's just for me? I am so confused.
I have not made any secret of the fact (in the past) that taking ANY kind of Hormonal supplements is very very frightening to me as a mother. Of course, if she decides to do this, it is her choice as a 26 year old, but I would Sooooo prefer it if she wanted to
identify as male, why not just identify as male? Change her name, her clothing
is already male identified, but I guess it will be her choice. Actually, I suspect
right now, her self esteem being so low, and her current partner being very
controlling and manipulative - that it is actually her partner's choice.
I feel, as a mother, so incredibly heartbroken, not because of any gender identification
issues, but because I have raised a child that thinks so little of herself, she
would consider doing something (anything) simply to make someone else (in this case
her partner) happy. Of course, I have no proof of this, since she won't talk to
me I can only speculate based on what has been said and done in the past.
I will continue to try and get her into individual counseling, but first step is just getting her to say "Hi" to me again.
Thanks so much again for your honesty, take care of yourself. I am struggling to understand all these issues, but mostly I just want to hug my child again.
Coming in late....
Related to your last post...not all hysterectomies need to wreak havoc on ones system. I had one 12 years ago, for medical reasons, and because they took just the uterous, and left the ovaries, I still produce effecient hormones, with no need to take supplements. I still get monthly symptoms, such as bloating, but of course there is no more bleeding. But getting a hysterectomy is a lifetime decision, and should not be taken lightly. I knew that with my third pregnancy, I'd need to get one..there were many complications.
Also related to the last post...no, most lesbians do not want their partners to transition from female to male, as lesbians are attracted to women. Of course, individuals are unique, and there are exceptions to everything..but in general, lesbians are attracted to the female form.
From earlier posts..it does seem that your daughter has some mental health issues that need to be addressed. It also seems that she's in a bad relationship. And if she is taking testosterone without a doctors supervision, she can be doing damage to her body, big time.
One one hand, she's an adult woman and will make her own choices.
On the other, you are her mother and worry about her, as mothers do. (I have a grown child myself, along with an 18 and a 14, so I've been there, watching an adult child make choices that make me cringe.....eeeek)
You are wise to set boundaries around what is acceptable in your home, and in your life. Leave your door open, offer gentle advice to your daughter, be there when she's ready...but in the meantime, she'll only make changes when she's ready to make them.
Take care of YOU. Make sure that your needs are met, that you're doing what you need to do to keep yourself healthy and in a good place, that way when she's ready, you'll be able to help, to deal with things.
I am not sure I'm a lesbian yet, but I love my mom. If I do turn out to be lesbian then I am not sure my mom will still love me.
My girlfriend's best friend aside from me is her mom. So the answer to your question is no.
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