Thursday Thoughts....Media....
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Thursday Thoughts....Media....
| Thu, 05-03-2007 - 7:33am |
Good Morning All!
I couldn't wait for Thursday so we could get back to our discussions.
| Thu, 05-03-2007 - 7:33am |
Good Morning All!
I couldn't wait for Thursday so we could get back to our discussions.
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I always enjoy these Thursday topics!
The portrayal of lesbians on The L Word never bothered me for four reasons:
1) Regionally, it makes sense. The series takes place in LA, a region notorious for it's lack of butch lesbians.
2) This is Hollywood. Beautiful people sells -- and like it or not, the Western world's perception of beauty for women includeds femininity. Unfair? Yes. Good business sense? Yes. If people don't want, the show gets canceled.
3) It's been my experience that "birds of a feather flock together". In other words, almost all of my lesbian friends are femme. When I was single this was expecially true. It's not that I don't WANT butch friends, I just tend to identify better with other femme women and therefore tend to make deeper friendships with them. Jamie, who is pretty butch, is the same way. Almost all of her lesbian friends (aside from ex-girlfriends) are butch. So the fact that this particular group of friends was all femme didn't strike me as odd at all. I did think it was odd that there weren't more butch love interests or minor characters, but given my first two points I wasn't too bothered by it.
4) As a femme lesbian, I was EXCITED to see a group of femme lesbians portrayed on tv. I think often the media portrays lesbians as butch or bi-curious. It was nice to have characters I could actually relate to (well, to some degree). I also liked the stereotype-breaking idea that a woman can be powerful and independent and career-oriented without also being masculine.
In general, my biggest pet peeve is not the butch stereotype (though that rubs me wrong occassionally) it's the ignorant portrayal of bi-curious straight women as lesbians. If a straight woman kisses another straight woman in public for the express purpose of titilating men, they are NOT lesbians. If a straight woman has a fling with a another woman (straight or gay) with no intention of having an actual relationship and mainly for the purpose shocking those around her or getting attention, that's not a lesbian relationship either. (To clarify, I'm NOT talking about women who are truly bisexual. I'm talking about straight women who want attention.) I think the portrayal of these women as lesbians is problematic for two reasons:
1) The public nature of their actions is offensive to many straight people (not to mention gay people, but that's another issue!). Homophobic pundits use these people as examples of why homosexuality is evil or corrupt. And it makes many lesbian couples uncomfortable and unwilling to be (appropriately) affectionate in public. These crazy "girls gone wild" making out in public and flashing strangers are not representative of the lesbian community and I find it offensive to be lumped in with them.
2) When straight people are familiar only with this form of "lesbianism" it reinforces the view that it is a "trend" or a "fad" or a "phase" and that all a lesbian needs in order to be "cured" is to "meet the right man". Because after all, if these women were once lesbians and now are happily married to men and purely homosexual, clearly the rest of us can aspire to the same. Coming out is hard enough, without having to battle this misconception. I feel like we are making progress on this front -- enough scientific evidence is coming to light that homosexuality is biological and irreversible that people are starting to come to terms with it even if they don't like it. (Hence the fact that many churches state now that homosexual feelings are not sinful, just the actions.) But I think this kind of behavior makes us take a step back.
I don't have any real opinion about Rosie or Ellen, except to say that I enjoy them both greatly. I think they are great commediennes and actresses. And I think it's great that they came out when they did, because they did a great service to the community by increasing visibility. I do get annoyed sometimes when the media makes EVERYTHING about their sexuality. (ie When Rosie joined the view, the media insinuated that the clause in her contract stating she could not cut her hair without approval was due to the fact that she might get a "butch" haircut. In reality, these clauses are absolutely standard for all talk show hosts.) I also dislike the way that they are sometimes seen as representatives of the community in everything they do. Just because Ellen boycots something or Rosie protests something doesn't mean ALL lesbians are for/against it. But that happens with all minorities.
Can’t say I really gave it much thought because I don’t usually sit down to watch tv much. It’s not that I don’t want to, just don’t have time. I do have an opinion on portrayal of lesbians on tv/films but it’s taken from a few samples I have seen so far. The films I seen like Better than Chocolate, Bound, Claire of the Moon, Desert Hearts, Gia, Saving Face and a few I would rather not named is a mix portrayal of how I would like to see lesbians on films. The ones by female directors I do enjoyed more than the ones done by male directors.
For the real life out lesbians in the entertainment industry, I do admire Ellen and Rosie but for different reasons. I admired both for being out to the public but I do feel affectionate toward Rosie because of her outspokenness. I don’t agree with everything she say or at times understand what she’s saying but I do love the passion she said it with. I will miss her terribly when she gone from The View. She bring the show back to life. I hope she got a new project line up soon to be unveil.
WOW Annie!
Thanks for all the input!
I’ve watched The L Word some. It didn’t seem very realistic to me. But, then again I’m not well versed in lesbianism either. Where I reside couples are butch/femme. I just assumed that the show was targeting a male audience. But, you know what you get for assuming.
As for Rosie, in my humble opinion, which I’m certain will not be popular here, I’m glad she’s leaving The View. She is very over the top with everything. And, you know that’s okay. I mean, you can change the channel. But, I am not impressed with the 9/11 conspiracy theories. I think that if she wanted to pursue that subject she should have done so on her blog or somewhere besides The View. Reason being that I think that subject matter is still tender to some in America and it is disrespectful to the families who lost loved ones.
Now I know very little about a lot of things but I’m just sharing my opinions. And, as they say…everyone has one.
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I actually started to write a whole paragraph about this and stopped because I didn't want to veer too far off track. But since you mentioned it... ;)
I think it's fascinating to explore the subjectiveness that comes with these labels. For one thing, they are incredibly personal and so while I might assume a woman is femme or butch by her appearance or attitude, she might describe herself very differently. But beyond that, a lot of how we form our expectations is based on our region. I had a very good friend who was from Germany and came to the US for grad school. In Germany, she was labeled (by herself, her friends, and strangers around her) as a femme. When she came to the US she was stunned to find that she was not only ALWAYS labeled as "butch" but she was frequently mistaken for a man. Her friends back home laughed uproriously about this and refused to believe it was true.
I lived for awhile in the rural midwest where lesbians are few and far between (or at least deeply closeted!) but those I knew all fit every butch stereotype you can think of: mullet, flannel shirts, work boots, "masculine" professions (truck drivers, etc). Here in Atlanta, I see a wide variety of lesbians, from the super femme to the super butch. And while the butch/femme dynamic is still somewhat popular here, I also know tons of butch/butch and femme/femme couples. Meanwhile out in LA, even those women labeled as "butch" could easily be called femme here or elsewhere. If you think in terms of actors, Ellen Degeneres is about the most butch (out) lesbian in Hollywood, and compared to the spectrum in Atlanta, I'd never classify her as butch (maybe soft butch, but probably more androgynous). Same goes for characters like Shane and Papi on the L Word. They certainly have some androgynous and masculine qualities, but they are not nearly as butch as many lesbians in other regions. And I think that's realistic given the setting of the show.
There was a brief nod to this during this season of the L Word. When Max meets Grace and tells her that he's transitioning, she opines the fact that there aren't any strong butch women in the area (I believe she's from San Francisco, where there is a much wider spectrum). She says she thinks it's unfortunate that all women in LA who identify as masculine feel the need to transition. Max tells her it's not that simple and the plot progresses, but you see the reference.
Hey Chmod!
You are right that everyone has their opinion and I am glad you expressed yours.
hey again Annie!
Never worry about vering off track. As I always say we can take these threads in whatever direction people want.
You are so right about people in general (not just lesbians) as not seeing themselves as others see them.
I have to agree with you, chmod, about Rosie.
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