What Do You Think?

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-26-2004
What Do You Think?
18
Mon, 02-21-2005 - 8:27am
Hey Everyone! Hope everyone had a great weekend!
I thought I'd open a philosophical discussion that has been weighing on my mind all weekend.
I have a very good friend that I have a great bit in common with. We have the same ideas and opinions on most things, except for religion.
She is a born-again Christian and believes that you are to take the bible word for word and not interpret into todays' standards, etc...She continually contradicts herself on things. I am pretty patient and hear her out without debating with her.
This weekend, my husband was talking about his gay brother. Our philosophy on him is that it is his life and he is happy so we are happy for him. Before he "came out," he was wasting his life away. After he met his significant other, he did a 360. I adore his significant other too. He is a great man. Very kind and willing to help anyone, anytime. She interrupted my husband and told him that he is going to hell and she will never forgive him for his choice. I told her I don't believe it had anything to do with choice and she said that he just needed to look harder for a "real" woman. I asked her what if her children told her they were gay, and she said she would have to stop loving them because the Bible says it is a sin. I was shocked! I never thought a mother would think that way because I could never! I tried not to be offended, but I blurted out out of disappointment that being a Christian means you accept everyone for who they are and never judge. This went on for a bit, and I told her that I am extremely spiritual and I have read the Bible along with other information on other religions as Buddhisim, Goddess Worship, etc. I told her I believe in God and Goddess and I respect the fundamentals of all religions. She said because I worship false idols and don't go through Jesus to get to God, I am going to Hell. I was shocked! She even said that Buddhist, the most peaceful religion, is evil!
I believe in Jesus too and I think he was a wonderful man, but I don't think he meant for his teachings to be interpreted this way. I think, personally, the way she is saying things sounds a bit racist. I am trying not to judge HER for her choice.
Besides her, I have been reading about movements of groups of born agains who think the same as her. I am not saying all. I know of some groups that are wonderful. These groups sound kind of cultish. Has anyone else encountered this "new" way of thinking? I have heard they are a growing population.
I used to bitch about Catholicsm, but they never taught this view of accepting Jesus BEFORE God, plus, if they are going by the Bible, wouldn't you accept God first and accept Jesus as the Son of God, not the other way around? To me, they are worshipping a false idol because they are worshipping pictures and statutes of Jesus instead of God. If you want to get precise on the whole "false idol" thing.I don't think Jesus wanted it that way.
Am I missing something? Am I wrong on this? This way of thinking is starting to really concern me. It reminds me of other extreme cult groups, i.e., Jonestown, Waco, etc... What do you think?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 12-31-2003
Mon, 02-21-2005 - 9:18am

I have to say I feel the same way you do

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-27-2004
Mon, 02-21-2005 - 9:35am

I think that it is sad that so many religions preach that their way is the only way. I know that when you discover a new truth about God it can be exciting and you want to share it with others, but to force it upon them is a totally different thing in my opinion. I believe that such ideas are bourne from fear. Can you imagine how unhappy your life would be if you felt that you needed to fear making a mistake and getting things wrong so that you could get to heaven in the next life. I don't believe that God would want that for us, I think that he wants this life to be a happy one where we learn and grow without fear of retribution for worshiping in the wrong way. Imagine how stressful your friend's life must be if she feels that if her children 'make a mistake' that contravenes what she believes to be God's laws then she cannot love them anymore. Imagine how hard it must be to live with all that disdain for those who are different and who follow other paths (eg those who are gay etc). How bleak your life would feel if all that was a part of it. Whilst I can understand your anger and hurt at her intollerace of people you love, when I hear stories of this kind it makes me grateful that I don't need to carry around the burdens the way your friend does any more.

Brightest Blessings
Carol

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 02-21-2005 - 11:09am
Wow Carol, you really put that in perspective. Thank you. These hard-core literalist Christians just confuse me to no end. How can you follow a religion that proclaims 'love your neighbor' and 'judge not' and then be so @#$%^! judgemental about other people? But you're totally right. That must be a horrible burden to bear, living in fear all the time, and probably guilt too for all the normal human feelings they have that contradict their 'beliefs.' I'm so glad I read your post BEFORE replying. :-)
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-26-2004
Mon, 02-21-2005 - 1:31pm
Well, to be fair to my friend, she was preached this way of thinking all her life by a father who went to jail and alcoholics anonymous and "found" Jesus there. Problem is, he is STILL an alcoholic! She does the same. She does speed on and off, drinks, smokes pot, etc..but they are still saved! Sadly, I do believe most of her problem is ignorance and naivity. She was telling me she started doing Tae Bo with Billy Blanks. She said she does his workout because he is so spiritual. Funny thing is...he got most of his routine through Eastern values! I tell her this and it flies over her head. If we go by what she says..Billy Blanks is going to hell too! (Haha). That shows how naive she is in that sense. When she called and ordered a tape and said to the operator she hoped that Blanks was there, the operator gave some line that he just left and she believed that too.
Thing is, her husband is like us and she is a nice person in other aspects. I don't judge her on her faults and she is a very giving and generous person. I kind of feel sorry for her. It almost angers me how some of these groups and people manipulate others. Hopefully she will open her eyes. Sometimes I'll throw in a bit of what I believe at times and she does think it over so I don't think it is a complete loss cause. I am more mad about these preachings than her.
R-
Avatar for dustbunny48
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 02-21-2005 - 2:33pm

It's a sad commentary on the state of Christianity when it's own followers have so lost touch with the teachings of their Master.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-09-2001
Mon, 02-21-2005 - 6:20pm
It is so difficult to maintain friendships with people who take their religion to fanatical extremes when you don't believe the same thing. It's scary but I try to remember these more extreme forms of ALL religions are very small minorities compared to the whole population. They won't be turning the country/world into one big theocracy of repressed people any time soon. :P I don't think I could maintain a close connection, personally, with someone either harshly judgmental in their religious focus in an intolerant disrespectful way, or always pushing me to convert. There's all kinds of people in this world. :O Sounds like you'll need to be assertive as to the subject matter of conversations you're willing to have with this person, in order to stay friends with her, if she'll follow your lead... Don't be intimidated. Your beliefs are just as valid. :) Gypsy


Blessings,

Gypsy

)O(



iVillage Member
Registered: 05-26-2004
Mon, 02-21-2005 - 6:58pm
I agree! I do try to keep the subjects off religion as much as I can. Problem with disconnecting is her husband is my husbands' best friend and her children and mine are very close. It is very difficult when someones' beliefs are so extreme. She is pretty isolated too and the only person she talks to on a regular basis is her father. I keep showing her material and sending her things on Christianity that show love for all and not judging others. Christianity, just like any religion, is very beautiful in the right context and can be very horrible in the bad context. She does seem to start thinking differently about things and questioning what she believes sometimes. She has a love-hate relationship with her father. When things are bad, she opens up more to new ideas. When it's good, he's over all the time preaching and she gets set in her ways. I think if she was more exposed to other ways of thinking, she would change her views. Being so isolated, I think she believes what she was born into. I will NEVER compromise my views to others although the difference between us is she is set in her ways and I am open to new experiences and forms of spirituality.
If it ever got much more extreme, it probably would be difficult to maintain friendship with her although I really try not to judge her views. If I do too much, then I feel I am doing the same thing she is.
I swear I wish my mind didn't go in so many directions at once sometimes! LOL
Love and Blessings
R-
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 02-21-2005 - 7:19pm
The entire "Jesus before God" issue has always bothered me. I used to attend a Baptist university in Texas. I encountered PLENTY of Christians with a cult like mentality. I used to get approached all the time and get asked if I was saved or if I accepted Jesus Christ as my saviour. It was a tough time for me, but it made me stronger in my beliefs. I did encounter a few true Christians and they were some of the best people that I have ever met. I usually try to refrain from talking about religion (or politics for that matter...another area where people can get "cultish") with people with the "my way or the highway" mindset. It's futile to attempt to engage anyone like that in an open and respectful conversation. Hmm...guess I didn't have much to contribute...just wanted to join in the vent. LOL
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-19-2003
Mon, 02-21-2005 - 9:28pm
A Christian perspective:
I feel so sorry for your friend that she thinks this way. She would really stop loving her children because they're gay? Jesus said to "love thy neighbor as thyself". He also said, "if ye love me, keep my commandments". We are commanded to love one another, and she is not doing this.
I don't see why there can't be a Goddess. After all, we were made in God's image. Since we're not floating masses of matter, then God can't be either. And since men and women are very different in physical form, we women had to be made in someone's image, so why couldn't God have a wife? And I seriously doubt that Buddhists are going to hell. "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God" (Matthew 5:9).
You're right, some people have taken Christ's words and have twisted them out of context and shaped them to fit their beliefs. It'll be a happy day when He comes again and can tell us exactly what He meant.
As for homosexuality, I'm not sure if it's something that someone is born with or what. I myself don't agree with homosexual activities, but I do see gays as children of God, and will continue to treat them as such.
Good luck with your friend. I hope she sees the error of her ways and truly tries to live as God would want her to live: as a caring, open person who loves everyone, including herself.
T
(And off I go back into lurkerdom ^_^)

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iVillage Member
Registered: 05-26-2004
Tue, 02-22-2005 - 6:00am
What you said is very true. I have always questioned how someone can go by the exact teachings of the Bible, considering it was altered so much over the years, how do you really know what message they are trying to get across in certain passages? Plus, the New Testament is written 400 years after Jesus. I believe there is alot of room for error. As for homosexuality, I accept it because I have seen the difference in my brother-in-law since he found the right person for him. Male or female. I do have a problem thinking about the sexual part of homosexuality. I don't want to know what goes behind closed doors with them, but I don't want to know what goes on behind closed doors with my parents also! LOL. Philosophically, religion is tough. I always wonder what makes people think the way they do. I guess the more I learn the more patience I can have with people who are fanatical. To me, they must be missing something very important in their lives to rely so highly on misguided ideals.
R-

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