QotW-3/23- Forgiveness? What's that?
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QotW-3/23- Forgiveness? What's that?
| Thu, 03-23-2006 - 9:07am |
Have you ever had something terrible happen to you at the hands of someone else? Do you carry anger at your parents or siblings for childhood incidents? Has a friend betrayed you?
Forgive and forget? Forgive but don't forget? Forgive them, forgive yourself, receive forgiveness from someone else or your higher power? What is forgiveness?
Ponder, please and respond... I can hardly wait to see where this one goes!
Bink


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I ran across a lenten thing that triggered this question of the week, and I thought we might all like to contribute our thoughts.
Hi Binkeebee
what a marvellous subject! Yes that forgiveness.. mmm, tis something which I do, to do good to myself. Not for the person who receives the forgiveness.
Forgiving somebody else, is for my good but I feel? that I will not forget. I won't brood on the matter, but I am careful and take it as the following expression taken from the Dutch language: a warned person, counts for two.. There is a similar expression in English, but I can't get to it right now.
I have had 3 marriages, being still in my 3rd. So the matter of rejection, betrayal grieve, harm etc etc. are numerous. Also from people I worked with or did a lot of good things to.
These days? I make actually very clear decisions in my life.. If something happens? I just look at how does it fit into my life, my situation, am I like this? NO? goodbye.. I don't even discuss the matter.. I just turn around and do my own thing.
I found several ways, to get over the grieve of my hurts or things or harm donee to me.. I take time out? to send lovehearts to the person who has hurt or harmed me.. I surround them with it and all by it little own self? my hurt and grieve disappears and what is happening with the other? I don't spend any moment on brooding about whatever.
a Long time ago, I was very devastated by the betrayal and grieve my first and second marriages gave me. I used to have a great deal of trouble sleeping. So I thought, have a good brisk walk, girl before tucking yourself in.... One night, even there was not a soul around on the streets, this person appeared beside me and we talked. Funniest thing was, he always came along at a particular spot on my route.. soo one day, he told me that he belonged to the Hopi Indians and in their lives? when somebody has grieved them? they send those people or those situations... lovehearts.. he told me that I would do a lot of crying or get even angrier, but just to keep at it.. We practiced that for several weeks, ever night, we would meet up. Then one day. I never saw him again and it dawned on me, that I wasn't angry or hurt or grieved any longer.. and I was able to go on with my own life.
There have been a number of people, whom I have adviced this to do.. also told them? that it might take a while before they felt any better. A cousin of mine, didn't respond to me, after I told her about this experience and then one day, about almost two and a half years later, she all of a sudden send me an email, thanking me for having saved her sanity and her relationship.. I had no idea what she was talking about, so I mailed her that back. Tis then? that she told me that she was going to prove me THE biggest idiot in the world, as I was always telling her very weird things to do.. BUT, it turned out that it was not just helping her, but she also saw results. She kept at it and so one day, she decided that she should tell me, that I wasn't off that deep end as much as she had always felt...
Tis not easy to grieve or to forgive? I also feel, that you don't neccessarily need to forget.. For there is always a lesson if somebody or something has hurt, harmed or grieved you. So you/one should remember that..
Then also? I came across the method, which is called, EFT, that means Emotional Freedom Technique.. and its basis is from China.. I have not just used that technique myself? but also have been able to help my hub with it, friends and a fosterson.
This technique also helps with all sorts of traumas etc etc.. and it works very very quickly. Presently am working with somebody, who is in the habit of not just holding his grudges, but walking around with ideas in his head, how to try to kill those which have done him injustices, as he sees it, a person who also suffers from extreme anxiety attacks and depressions.. Just a couple of weeks and he is already quite a different person.
I hope that others here, also will write about their experiences, opinions etc etc.. cause we can all learn from one another! and nothing better than in a friendly environment!
greets, brush
WOW!!! I do need to ponder this. Can't waitto see others' posts though!
And why is it I feel I need to think so hard about it? H'mmmm - this could get good!
Okay - I've thought and I've pondered...
To me - to *forgive* is to feel the wrong - trauma - hurt - devastation that has been forced upon you, let that pain surround you, smother you, and at times even drown you in its presence. I think forgiveness comes with walking through that darkness, however it takes shape in your life, and coming out the other side without harshness. Yet it comes in waves, just as the healing from anything also comes in waves.
In my 5 decades plus of life, I've carried my share - anywhere from livng a rather harsh childhood with parents that didn't always do their best to parent, to a man when I was 9... to the loss of 6 babies (can you guess who I was upset with in this scenario?), to a *spiritual leader* who helped me to feel less than any being needs to feel.
For me, I've learned that the only one I could ever forgive is myself for allowing the low feelings I've allowed myself to harbor, for whatever reason - justifiable or not - and that isn't always easy to do. I am my own worst enemy! As for the others - more often than not, I particapated in those scenarios, as an innocent - or not. Yet - I was a participant. Were there lessons to learn!! You betcha! Did I learn them? Not always as quickly as I could have, lol! Did I feel the horrors of walking through those instances of my life in utter agony? You betcha!
I've learned though that sometimes it always *forgiveness* that needs to take place. Sometimes when I've found that I simply can't *get over it* I simply need to "let go".
I did a personal ceremony for my relationship with my mom that helped tremendously. Are there still harsh feelings? Sometimes - but for the most part I feel there isn't anything to forgive her for. She did the best she could under her circumstances. Do I love her? yes. Do I like the person she is? Not really - but that doesn't mean I have to hold her accountable for my life.
That man? More than slapping him in the face a few times as hard as I could, I'd much rather do a face to face with him and let him know just how skewed my life was for many years from the emotional trauma he forced on me.
The *spiritual leader*? He's removed from life. I wish him well and am thankful I walked away when I did. I helped to pick up the peices for other members of that group. I will never forget how he put me through my paces - I will, for ever, question another's trustworthiness, and question even harder how much I trust my own instints. He taught me discernment.
My babies? Creator came through for me in the end. I'm great to each baby for helping me find a peice of myself I didn't know existed come to fruition. Every one of them is close to me in many ways.
I've learned and am learning every day how to let go.
One can't really forget. It makes more sense to me to see the situation, work through it, hold it close and get to know those emotions and feelings until you can let it go.
Forgiving doesn't change anything - but it feels more passive than an action of letting go. I've always thought I'd forgiven someone for something, only to let it rile me up later! Bink talked about how she ask would ask forgiveness for whatever and would go through the motions of feeling forgiven ( sorry if I corrupted your version, Bink, but I really related with what you said and this is how I viewed it from my perspective).
Letting go doesn't change anything either yet, I can visually let go a balloon, or watch my written schtuff go up in flames, or or toss something in a river and physically "let it go". And for me, it works.
I'd love to hear other's view point on this. PLEASE - point out anything you differ with - I don't always communicate well and maybe it'll help us all out a bit! There's just so much to say but I can't think anymore. ~sigh~
I still can't wait to see other responses!
Love Bren
Great question Bink!
I like your statement seeing the other side of the story. I have 3 situations that come to mind.
1. A girl friend who met a man and disappeared from my life. I have made attempts to tell her how I feel and i don't need frequent calls etc. Just having her occasionally share something about her life rather than 1 sentence e-mails. To feel that she needs to have a female friend in me. She said she wanted the friendship. I have heard from her twice since then, the last was before Christmas. we were VERY close, more like sisters. There is not the hurt any more. It was really painful for me. Would I take her back, don't seem to want to go there. I have not met the man, she has been with him almost a year and 1/2. Maybe her friendship with me was on a shallower side rather than genuine. Eventually she will get in touch with me, I am not sure where this one is going so I'll stop.
2. the X man friend. he moved out in a not too great fashion 3-4 years ago. I have forgiven him after a lot of conversations that started a year after, he and the next girlfriend have broken up, we still E-mail. I see his inability to commit, so basically he is just immature and does the best with what he has. he is charming, humerous, handsome. not real boy friend material. I don't feel pain, don't trust him a lot but I don't feel pain. The good part.
3. a nurse at work reported me and another nurse in writing for a situation that we had handled, she didn't read my notes. It caused a lot of bad feelings. Just stop the control and call and say, what happened or read my notes. a lesson for all. I may not have a lot of trust in her but I can forgive. My other buddy and i had to take some action back, but all will be OK. hard to forgive a control freak, but I can do it. I just stay out of her way.
I can see everybody's sides to their actions. All I can think about for now. Love, Leila
Hmmmm I've thought about this ~ read the other posts ~ thought about it some more annnnnd
For me? Forgiveness is a process . . . it takes time (sometimes a lifetime). But as I see it, the process (as w/ any Journey) begins with that first step ~~~ the *desire* to forgive. And as Brush said, that often has little to do w/ the other person and everything to do w/ our Self and our own well-being and desire to love our Self and heal our wound. Sometimes the process takes *a lot* of work . . . and pain (especially depending on the injury). As Bren said sometimes you have to allow feelings to wash over you in waves ~ (and you can feel like you're drowning) in order to get to the other side . . . the release of the pain. And yes, many times "Seeing the other person's side" is part of the journey. (that has helped me to release a lot). And the whole process can be a valuable lesson in empathy.
Forgive and forget? Again I think it depends on the "injury" ~ I believe certain things happen to *teach* us lessons we are not meant to forget. So we need to hold on to the lesson & not forget what we learned. Yet to me, the "forget" here means to forget the pain . . . to not harbor a grudge, to release enough to reach a certain level of objectivity (and personal health).
What I have learned from some of the "forgiveness processes" I've dealt w/ (am dealing w/) in the past couple of years is that the *experiences* have changed me. "Older and wiser"? . . . or just "jaded"?!? Not sure which exactly, but I don't look at things like I used to. I'm certainly not "wide-eyed", as I once was. And Trust is not something I freely dole out anymore . . . .
And there is one "process" I'm still in the middle of, have not let go of the pain . . . *yet* . . .
"Just Keep Swimming" . . . . . . . .
Good question!
Peace, "M"
Forgiveness to me is a way of healing, of no longer carrying the "shadow" of the harm done. It is a letting go of the anger, hurt, bitterness. Until this is done, I believe one's whole life will always be shadowed and less bright than it could become. Through forgiveness of others and of self, lies freedom to grow and evolve.
Gypsy
Blessings,
Gypsy
)O(
Don't think forgiveness is necessary, or need be the focus in terms of repairing social injustice, for just one thing. In that case, seems to me that change, action, and/or longterm "fixes" are most important. The word "forgiveness" is laden with plenty of unnecessary social-religious pressure, too.
In a strictly personal sense, I think there's a direct connection between being hard on oneself, and being hard on others. When we are able to "forgive" or move past our own mistakes, it's that much easier to move past others'. It's a bit different, though, from expecting others to make reparations concerning a social injustice, of which there are way too many. How many ministers or priests have left their pulpits for having failed their "flock" in some way, either by financial irresponsibility or much much worse? An apology to the masses is one thing, taking action to correct, and make reparations is another. When the former comes without the latter it's fairly meaningless.
One feature of a just society is that we all be able to recognize each other as having standing, as having legitimate focuses in our lives, and as having equally stringent interests in getting our life-projects fulfilled. No one's life is "ab initio" more deserving of rewards than anyone else's. It does not follow from this that someone who works harder than his sister is therefore deserving of more of the good stuff. Just action/behavior is what really "speaks" the language of apologies/forgiveness. I don't think forgiveness would be necessary if more people were concerned about "righting" wrongs, even perfectly human ones. Forgiveness can become necessary, I think, because too many people don't see how all of it fits together before the fact. (the big picture)
Good topic!
xxoox
Dear Leila, it is *very* painful when sisters dump each other for men, or for anyone/anything. My heart has felt that pain, too. Imagine that two people are for a time on the same wavelength, and for various reasons, the lengths shift, and two people are no longer simpatico; one drifts, or "falls" away and leaves the other, or two people are busy traveling to different lengths, and there's nothing for it. People grow at different degrees, and rates, and for many (for all of us at times) it's one step forward, two back.
My guess is that some day your friend will "wake-up" and realize her mistake. The good thing is that, hopefully, she'll be gentle with herself, and be able to apply her experience the next time around.
{{{{{Hugs and Love}}}}}
xxoox
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