Any UUs here?
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| Sat, 09-09-2006 - 11:31am |
I've been reading up on UUs and read other posters on other boards, and their experiences. I would like some "community" on my spiritual path, but I have my own individual beliefs and I do not want to have to "choose one" religion to find a spiritual "community." The UU philosophy and combination and respect for all beliefs and celebrating them, sounds like something I might like.
There is a UU in my area whose web site I like. They have a Pagan Circle, also, that celebrates the Sabbats, as well as the UU services on Sundays. They are also gay friendly and welcoming, another good sign they are truly UU in their philosophy, and respectful and open to all without bias or prejudice. :)
I already have web sites I'm reading, but would be interested in hearing more of a personal response of personal experience. How did you come to go to a service, etc.
Thanks,
Gypsy

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Hey, there! Did you get your books? Have you started "My Chosen Faith?" I am about a third of the way into it. Very interesting and readable, to me. There's a great part about comparing all the world's religions/followers like the windows in a cathedral. Great analogy! Have you read that?
Also, I'm so excited! The UU church that I've been going to has a beginner course starting Tuesday evenings next week, so I'll be taking that. I am jumping in. I joined the Social Justice committee and we're going to work on protesting and seeking to end the Iraq war! We are going to sponsor a public showing of the film, "The Ground Truth:"
http://thegroundtruth.net/
http://www.thegroundtruth.org/film.html
and have veterans of the war come to speak. And find ways to work toward ending the war.
This group is SO active, for being so small. They're having a Mystery Play Dinner this month, plus a concert of Celtic music early next month. And my DD & I will attend their second Pagan Circle for Samhain, the Wiccan New Year, on Halloween! It is so awesome to be with other Pagans in a Circle. I've always been a Solitary. My DD and I are very excited!
So, how is the on-line Fellowship? Are you liking it?
Gypsy
Blessings,
Gypsy
)O(
I got my book. I'm about half-way through but keep forgetting to do the study guides! So, I guess I get to read it twice!
Congrats on jumping in like you have! Isn't it so nice to have that fellowship? I grew up with *it* in the SBC, but as I grew up I learned more and more how evil the people (though not all)
WOO! HOO! That's great. Sounds like you're jumping in, too! ;))
"I really identify with Unitarianism - faith by works. Afterall, what is faith without works? I just can't quite wrap my head around sharing the afterlife with *bad* people. (I don't believe in reincarnation.) "
That's what I like about UU, too. You can be sitting next to someone who believes in a different deity, or none at all. And it doesn't matter! You're accepted, respected, and entitled to your own beliefs. Plus you can work alongside someone on some project/issue, and join efforts and cooperative strength and you don't have to believe in what they do, or they, in what you believe. And it's all good! :D There's a real range of beliefs amongst people I'm getting to know and no worries someone will think you're weird or anything. :P UU has NO doctrine or dogma, so there is focus on sharing, finding commonality, mutual validity and respect. Soooo different than any other church structure I've tried, where I have to leave part of myself outside the door and accept a whole religious package, just to get fellowship. KWIM? That's why I've stayed a Solitary for so long. :D
What did you mean about sharing the afterlife with "bad" people? Is that what you think reincarnation is? I am puzzled, if you wouldn't mind sharing. :)
Gypsy
Blessings,
Gypsy
)O(
Hahaha...Well, I don't believe in reincarnation, so imo people who are bad, are bad. And, I cannot make myself believe that I will spend the rest of my eternity being exposed to them (like being on earth isn't dangerous enough).
Whereas, in reincarnation people evolve over many lifetimes, learning lessons, and becoming evolved spirits-- In one life an unrepentant
"So, that's my reasoning for rejecting Universalism."
So, have you given up on UU, then?
My impression of UU is that it doesn't have doctrine/beliefs, so there are people who believe that's all there is, this life, and then we die. Over. Done. Some believe in heaven or an afterlife. Some believe in reincarnation, which I do, but don't call it an "afterlife" at all. Some are Atheists. I believe reincarnation to be a process for evolution, living different lifetimes, making good with Karma and learning new lessons about being Spirit. Makes sense to me, but not to everyone. It's nice to be in a church that doesn't require any dogma or doctrine, but what you, yourself, believe in. I like being able to come together in sacred space, to be inspired, and set aside some time for that with other people. I joined what they call a Morning Discovery group, and we come together using different symbolism and discuss various topics, have a few readings or quotes, and some quiet meditation and discussion. It's interesting in the group of about 8 people, two were Atheist, two of us were Pagan (a man I met in the Pagan Circle celebrating Mabon/Fall Equinox), others were Agnostic...quite a mixed group. Yet we all could focus introspectively and get something out of it. And as we shared, nobody was shaking their head in disagreement or whatever. We all just accepted that we are who we are, we believe or don't believe, as we choose, but that we all had something valid to share on topic about our individual journeys and experiences and wisdom. KEWL! ;))
So far there are no politics in the service itself. I think churches are being verrry careful about that, given the recent IRS lawsuits against some churches who SUPPOSEDLY stepped over the line into politicking for parties, candidates, etc. We did have a service last Sunday celebrating the UUs acceptance of homosexuals, transgendered, etc., and had a young man, a member, speak of his "coming out" and how growing up UU, he had the spiritual support he needed, even with the struggle to be true to himself. That's as political as "the church" has gotten. But in my view, that's not politics. ;))
My impression of UU is that it is a liberal church, as to issues and so on, but I think different congregations may vary. I also have sensed people who are more conservative, too, and that doesn't seem to be a problem for anybody. They leave HOW we try to make a difference, our choice. There is no expectancy to do anything, join any group or activity, etc. And not being pressured, but following your own inner guidance, is a good deal to me. The liberalness is my cup of tea, LOL! :D After all, the UU is people, NO doctrine, NO dogma, NO set political party or telling people how to vote. Mostly I see people more involved in issues, that want to make our world a better place. Politics so far haven't really entered into that impression. I guess with the election coming up, and propositions on our state ballots, I may hear more, in general conversation. I like it's all about following your own conscience, doing what you think is right, to make a difference. I remember growing up we were taught that in "polite conversation" one never brought up politics or religion, LOL! :P
"Yup, my politics would have to be left at the door. And I don't think I can divide myself!!"
Bummer. ;(( I have had to leave my Pagan beliefs at the door anywhere else I tried, church-wise, so I felt the very same way with other churches. It's a major draw for me. of the UU, that I DON'T have to deny my own beliefs or who I am, to enter. I'm sorry the local UU church makes you feel unwelcome. :((
Gypsy
Blessings,
Gypsy
)O(
Hm, I guess I was confusing :-)
Unitarianism & Universalism are different denominations who have joined. Their doctrines are still different; and, yes, they do have a doctrine & belief system. Their minds are not so open that their brains fall out, though they are very accepting of all paths -- one light (Unitarianism) through different windows (Universalism).
The two compliment one another, but they are still distinct. I believe there is that one light, but I don't feel the need to agree with all of the windows :-)
I joined the Church (of the larger fellowship) as a full member. I have not gone to my local church. That will be a while. I may not go while living here to be honest. Like I've said, I have a lot of healing to do when it comes to church (& my husband has even more) and I wouldn't want to mess that up with politics.
As it is now, I can listen to sermons, fellowship with other CLFers online, and even delve into more serious literature (they are sending me a book today as a matter of fact).
Just because I hold a certain belief doesn't mean I think you are wrong! lol... Who really knows about the afterlife? I guess you don't know until you are dead, huh?? I most definitely do not discredit others religious beliefs as far as pagan, eastern traditions, etc... I might debate with a fundamentalist Christian, but somehow I put them in another category ;-)
I think that so much of our religions are the same, just labeled differently. *Unitarian belief btw*
The Universalist spin would be that there are right and wrong faiths, but it doesn't matter because everyone is going to Heaven anyway. That is something I choose to disagree with. That is what I was saying in my last post.
I gather that you choose to believe in reincarnation, which is different that them both. And the great thing about UU is that's okay! lol....
It's a pretty complex thing and you'll see it more as the book unfolds :-)
The last service I went to here the interim minister boo hoo'd about all of her health problems when she was grossly obese (and that was the complete sermon -- and the obesity seemed to be the root of all her health problems). They have a full time minister now. I'd like to go, but I just don't know if I can with the political climate. There will be conversations going on and my head strong spirit will probably get me into more trouble than it's worth.
K, prolly more confusing this time & I apologize :-)
eta: SORRY FOR THE HAT!!!!!! OOPs!!!!!!!
Edited 10/12/2006 2:26 pm ET by cl-missapril_piano
Yeah, I am confused, LOL! :D I am up to Chapter 8, will start it today. I am getting a completely different view of the UU...
"The Universalist spin would be that there are right and wrong faiths, but it doesn't matter because everyone is going to Heaven anyway. "
That is not what I'm getting from "A Chosen Faith" at all. :O I haven't read anything in the book so far, or in my talk with the minister at the church or with the people I have met and talked with so far, that sounds like what you wrote, at all. I am flabbergasted we are coming to opposite conclusions from the same book! WOW!
And about Unitarians and Universalists -- they are a united single church now, as of sometime in 1961, according to the timeline history in the back of the book. There is no distinction between the two, except as history from the past, out here or in the church I attend. It's a whole, single church now in my understanding -- the Unitarian Universalist Church. No separate beliefs or perspectives, but the same shared ideals ("Principles" as they call them). I haven't gotten from the web site or the book, that these two "roots" are separate in today's UU. Each congregation, church, fellowship is "owned" by the congregation. The direction each goes, is determined by the members. My impression. I don't see the principles http://www.uua.org/aboutuua/principles.html as doctrine or dogma, but a framework so all can come together without dogma/doctrine like other religions have, who worship a specific deity/deities and have outlined specific ways to do that, that MUST be followed. I don't get that from reading the Principles.
You're having a completely different experience and understanding. But I recognize we both have come from different paths and journeys, so we will interpret what we are learning about the UU, accordingly, right? I'm glad to be having this conversation with you! I am starting the beginning course in UU next Tuesday night, so I will be interested to compare what I hear there with what I'm understanding from both the book and my experiences at the church and in the groups, thus far.
I'll share more then, too, about that experience! ;))
Thanks for this great discussion. It's good to talk to another "newbie." :P
Gypsy
Blessings,
Gypsy
)O(
K, check pg 82, 83 & 84 (the extended metaphor: cathedral). Page 84 bottom "This is Universalism."
Now, look at page 88 " I'm suggesting a new theological model, in which one light (Unitarianism) sings through many windows (Universalism) in various, yet telling ways."
p. 34 "The difference between the two sides of our denomonational family was once summarized by a minister who knew both Universalist and Unitarian congregations. . "The Universalist believe that God is too good to damn them, whereas the Unitarians believe they are too good to be damned!".... Chapter 2 delves more into the difference, while chpt 3 shows how they are more alike (for the most part) in my understanding.
You are know ahead of me in reading!! I must catch up!! hehehe But as I understand it, they are not identical, but share a common goal, which lead them to completely combine in the 60s.
Okay........I must tell everyone that I am really and truly logged in without my hat (and was before, but just thought at that moment that I had a slip up), but for some reason it putting my hat on when I post. I can't explain it, but I will be asking the techies what's up!! Grrrrr....
Wikipedia says:
Historic Unitarianism believed in the oneness of God and not the Christian doctrine of the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in one God) proclaimed at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. Historic Unitarians believed in the moral authority, but not the deity, of Jesus. Unitarians are characterized by some as being identified through history as free thinkers and dissenters, evolving their beliefs in the direction of rationalism and humanism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian
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Universalism In Christianity, Universalism refers to the belief that all humans will be saved from eternal damnation or annihilation in hell. A related doctrine, apokatastasis, is the belief that all moral beings will be reconciled to God, including Satan and his fallen angels. It is generally considered heresy by all the major branches of Christianity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universalism
Yes, that the historical perspective, the roots. When I say UU I mean churches affiliated with the UUA, and my understanding it took the roots of both Unitarian and Universalism, and welded them into one focus and set of Principles, as the UUA, so that they could have more impact as a single religion, rather than two smaller separate ones, in orderto accomplish good works and social justice. I love the roots of Universalist the most, of course! That's the quality I seek in a spiritual community! ;))
Gypsy
Blessings,
Gypsy
)O(
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