Depressed: career or "just you"? (long)
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| Thu, 06-15-2006 - 3:45am |
Hi, I'm back from my trip...though it seems like either my computer or the board is having some technical problems now, so this may end up not getting through. But I'll try anyway!
The trip was good in most ways, just not so good in others (dealing with my mom's reaction to my weight change, etc). And I guess it was relaxing, since I had more migraine-free days down there (2 in a row) than I can remember in a really long time.
I got back yesterday afternoon, and this morning I had an appointment with my neurologist for migraines. (I know none of this sounds like it belongs on this board, but it will, maybe, at some point!). She is a wonderful doctor with the reputation of being one of the most knowledgeable and caring in her field, and I do generally respect her opinions.
(I think my Ambien may be kicking in a little, so I apologize in advance for any nonsense that comes out of this post...I just can't seem to calm down enough to sleep otherwise, but I think I may have started using it as a way to "escape" the world).
Anyway, while the doctor and I did discuss possible meds changes (I'm now going to re-try a drug I once tried that made me really sleepy...I told her that, but I did say I would be willing to give it another shot...probably shouldn't have, though!). There's a muscle relaxant as another option, or even the idea of checking into a hospital for a few days to get the headaches under control.
OK, getting off the subject again. She ended up saying she thought the migraines were my body's way of saying that I'm very unhappy with my situation, and that they may be hard to stop until I can get the situation resolved.
This is where she's a great doctor...I don't think most would do this. We mostly talked about my life and career path, whether I'm happy or think I will ever be happy doing medicine as a career. There are some things I'm interested in, though, within medicine, like autism research and working with child psychiatric patients...but I just don't know.
She did ask me if there were any other options I had thought about pursuing instead of medicine...she brought up engineering, business, etc, things that make my stomach churn! But I had once thought about becoming a photographer or a veterinarian or working in some other way with animals...but for a variety of reasons (I won't list them all now!), I decided medicine might be the one.
I've never admitted this before, but maybe it's become more obvious to me lately, that part of the draw towards med school was that it was the "hardest" thing I could do to prove myself as a successful, worthwhile person. Does that make any sense? I know it's not a healthy way to look at life and worth in general.
Wow, I'm really starting to get sleepy...I'd better head off soon. But I do want to put in a quick pitch for the other side: I've invested so much time, energy, and (my parents') money in schooling. My parents have a "once you start it, you finish it" kind of policy...they didn't really want me to go to med school because of the stress, but once I decided to go, they definitely wanted me to stick with my choice.
Plus my neurologist also said that I need to stop relying so much on what my parents think of what I do and just do what I want to...which in my case may be true. I am often so inhibitied because I think, "what would Mom think?". I don't know if this makes any sense.
Hmm, somehow I need to discuss this idea, or at least open the lines of communication about it, with my parents...I guess they know I'm not happy. But my main question is, how do you know it's the career that's making you stressed or unhappy, and not just "who you are?". I was depressed in high school, suicidal by college (multiple times), and that continues of course now.
For better or worse, med school is my life right now, and the idea of giving that up is overwhelming, in good and bad ways...can that get any more confusing, right?! I also still have this fear that I have an ongoing connective tissue disorder that will limit my lifespan...though I know it sounds irrational, it keeps me from believing in many/any plans set part in the future.
Thanks for listening to this craziness...you know there's more where that came from!
Rose

hi, Rose!
I'm glad you had a good time on your trip- everyone on the board is traveling recently, I want to go somewhere too, LOL!
"But my main question is, how do you know it's the career that's making you stressed or unhappy, and not just "who you are?". I was depressed in high school, suicidal by college (multiple times), and that continues of course now."
I would say it's both. Not a very helpful answer, I know! But since you were depressed and suicidal before med school, it makes sense. I think the issues existed before, but med-school is so hard and stressful that:
1. It could be making you feel a lot worse
2. It prevents you from fixing the orignial issues because: You have no time or energy with all the studying and work you have to do!
"I've never admitted this before, but maybe it's become more obvious to me lately, that part of the draw towards med school was that it was the "hardest" thing I could do to prove myself as a successful, worthwhile person."
That's a great insight! Do you know why you felt like you had to prove something?
"But I do want to put in a quick pitch for the other side: I've invested so much time, energy, and (my parents') money in schooling. My parents have a "once you start it, you finish it" kind of policy...they didn't really want me to go to med school because of the stress, but once I decided to go, they definitely wanted me to stick with my choice."
Did you ever hear the phrase, "throwing good money after bad?" If you are not going to be a doctor for long enough to pay off the loans, the sooner you stop the better. And I don't know how long it would take to pay off the loans, but I imagine it would be several years at least. I do sympathize with your parents viewpoint but ultimately, the results speak for themsevles and if there's a good chance that even if you stick with it- you will hate it and be miserable- what would they want then?
"For better or worse, med school is my life right now, and the idea of giving that up is overwhelming,"
That is a valid and good point. You don't want to be at loose ends with no goals and feeling even worse because of that. What about an alternate degree that you can apply your credits to so it's not a big waste? Talk to a school guidance counselor who knows about different programs. What about psychology? You mentioned autism and working with child mental health patients, well that sounds more like psychology to me.
Perhaps you can find a middle road between finishing med school and quitting school altogether. If you can switch to an easier degree, one that can use some of the credits you already earned, would you be happy doing that? And next time, and maybe from now on, take out the loans in your name so your parents are not involved. That way for better or worse, it will be your responsibility, which I think it needs to be because it's your life. I think if your parents chose to pay for your education, they have to take the consequences which may include losing lots of money. Since it's becomming a huge problem for all of you, maybe they should stop paying for it- I know that sounds scary to you but it's not healthy for either of you the way it is now, either.
Let me ask you this- and you don't have to answer. How are your grades, if you keep on the way you are now, will you be able to get a good job as a doctor after graduation, and how long will that take? I don't ask to be rude but becuase it is a factor and I have no idea how med school works or how your grades are. You don't have to answer, but that's something to consider too. If your grades are excellent or good enough, that may be a reason to keep going, but if they are not good enough to get a good job, then why keep throwing good money after bad?
(Note- that phrase doesn't mean you are bad, it means wasted money is bad. I just wanted to clarify that!)
I hope my post helped bring up more things to think about. I agree with Lori that it's your choice in the end. I don't want to tell you what to do or pressure you. I know that you know (deep down inside) what will make you happiest. I trust your judgement!
Edited 6/15/2006 6:36 pm ET by bluerains
Hi Rose,
Thanks so much, bluerains...your post was really helpful. I'm supposed to be studying, but I can't stop thinking about all this...my motivation to study has gone downhill too.
To answer the question about why I felt I had to prove something...I'm not exactly sure (an awful answer, I know!). I was a major perfectionist (and still am, but not quite as badly)...I also have a twin sister I felt I was always getting compared to. I'm guessing my parents had something to do with it, though I don't want to place too much blame...I don't know what to believe about how "bad" my dad was or how much was just my sensitivity to it...but more than one therapist thought I had signs of PTSD from emotional and verbal abuse.
I'd never heard that phrase "throwing good money after bad," but it makes sense. Financial stuff is a huge "hot button" thing with my dad...I actually wanted to distance myself from my parents by taking out loans for all of med school and told them so...but this is the sticky part of my situation: I went to college for free on merit scholarships, so my parents put that money towards med school for me...so I'm fortunate enough not to have any loans yet.
Fortunate only in a sense, though, as you said! This year I told my parents just what you said, that I'd prefer this all to be my responsibility and didn't want to accept any more of their money. They just got very offended and upset and convinced me that it was silly to take out loans that I'd have to pay back when they were offering to help. But I know that money and family, especially messed-up relationships with strings attached (though they say there are none) don't mix well at all.
Thanks for suggesting other options for using my credits...but unfortunately I think these classes are so specific that they won't transfer to any other programs...and if I were to do something else, I think it would have to be something very different anyway. One of my biggest problems is social anxiety, and so even though I might want to do something with people, I don't know that I could.
That's one thing that has really made me question whether I can do medicine. You asked about my grades...up until now, they've been excellent, but we've had two years of just academic work and paper tests. Next we have two more years of clinical work with patients in the hospital...and the few times when we've gotten evaluated on those kinds of things, I've probably been among the worst...which has never happened to me in a school-type setting before (as I said, I'm a perfectionist!).
But I think it's almost completely due to anxiety. My whole (already very low) confidence got shaken by a woman evaluating me a few months ago who wrote that I seemed "very apprehensive" and that the interaction was very awkward for her! I wouldn't want to quit med school "just" because of anxiety...but then again, if I can't overcome it, it's a huge problem, and I wouldn't want to be a bad doctor because of it!
Oh, I said we have two more years of working in the hospital, but that's only until we graduate...then we have to do several more years of work (4 or so, depending on specialty) before we're actually qualified to get a "real" job and be able to pay back loans. A long time, as you said...and it's true, I don't know if I could stick with it that long, even without these issues (the hours are so long, etc).
Sorry, this post has gotten to be a novel! But you asked if my parents would want me to be miserable...and I know they don't...my mom just recently told me all she wanted me to do was to be healthy and happy. But inside I think that my dad especially wants me more than anything to follow through with this commitment...I can't even imagine the disaster that would arise if I told him I was quitting.
And finally, I know this will sound overdramatic, but I have let med school become my life...up until recently, I thought that I would either finish school or die trying, literally. I just have no energy for life, nothing that makes me happy, no goals, hardly any relationships I care much about, and no desire to start any...and I already feel like even physically, I'm falling apart (though I guess this is completely irrational...I believe I have some rare, deadly disease anyway).
I just don't have what it takes to face losing all the basics of my life and starting over again...I never thought I was much for material things at all, but I guess when you get down to it...if I weren't in school, I would have no place to live (I'm in the dorm), nothing to do, no access to medical or mental health care...the list goes on and on. I know my parents would probably try to "make" me move across the country to live with them, but that would be my ultimate nightmare...I've only recently realized how incredibly overbearing and over-involved they are. (I'm already paranoid that they've figured out my screen name and are probably reading this post now...seriously!).
So...I want to avoid being triggering for anyone...but I don't know that I would survive quitting. It seems like the final, complete loss when I'd have absolutely nothing else left to lose...not even my parents' happiness anymore. But then again, I can't imagine how I'll make it through school successfully...I don't know how my neurologist was able to see this in such a short time, but "trapped" is a pretty good word for how I feel.
OK...this may be the longest post I've ever written, which, knowing me, is really saying something. So I'll just say thank you again...you have no idea how much it helped to read your post.
Rose
Edited 6/15/2006 9:39 pm ET by rosa444
Thank you, Lori...I know I've been posting about this issue for years now probably, and I apologize (even though I know you weren't complaining...but I can imagine it must get very old!). I wonder why both my twin sister and I are so indecisive, especially about career things...for me, though, I think I just have no idea who I am in most parts of life.
Thanks for your questions...my answers are kind of a mixed bag of good and bad, though. I didn't decide to be a doctor until late, my last year of college...I once found an essay I wrote at about age 10 when I said I wanted to be a doctor and a writer, but I don't remember it being a dream of mine. And I can't really picture myself as a doctor, which is a problem.
But on the good side, I've felt pretty comfortable with the academic side of things, and I think I've been about as interested as I could be, considering the depression (I have never really understood people who "love" medicine or watching surgeries...but there isn't really anything in life that I love, except maybe sleep). But I ended up with very good grades somehow too...although all the clinical grades (evaluations of patient interactions) are yet to come, and I have a feeling those won't be as good.
I think you made a good point about fearing success...my own therapist brought up something similar a while ago, and it makes some sense. I'll have to give that some more thought (I don't want to give you too many more novels to read!)...but I'd never thought about the idea of feeling like I have to be "cured" of depression. Wow...makes sense...I know the job would give me a lot of responsibility, and I wouldn't want to be anything less than my best...if depression hit (or continued), I don't know what would happen...
I'm now not sure about talking to my parents. I wonder if I was too easily influenced by my doctor and agreed with her too fast...I don't know anymore. This will sound awful...but I haven't honestly been "living my dreams" in many years, mainly because I don't think I have any dreams. My doctor told me I rely on my parents' opinions too much, but for years the only reason I stayed alive was to keep from hurting them...so I guess it makes sense that their opinions matter to me?
That may still be the reason I'm here now...I probably seemed fine and happy to them when I visited, but I had, and have, this feeling that that would be the last time I would see them. I don't know how I could be depressed and crying now. I have an all-day orientation for working in the hospital tomorrow (I still have to go), where I have to see all my classmates again and explain things (or not, more likely)...so I guess that has brought all this up again.
Thanks so much...sorry for the long, long post,
Rose
Edit, later on: I just now realized that's not entirely true about having never had dreams, nothing that would motivate me to get out of bed in the morning...I have always loved photography since I got my first camera at 8, and gotten published and had my own (very small) exhibits in college...even thinking back on my times in a darkroom or taking photos is making me smile now through the tears.
But my mom said she didn't think that would be "intellectually stimulating" enough for me as a career, and I sort of agreed, or said I did...plus I honestly did want to help people and saw medicine as a way to do that. But my neurologist asked me what I would want to do if I could do anything, if money wasn't an issue, etc...I did say maybe photography or working with animals...but long term, I don't know if that would give the satisfaction that being a doctor would. Still, if someone told me there was a plane waiting to go to India for me to go on a photographic expedition, I'd be out of bed in a heartbeat! (trouble is, so would many other people, and hardly anyone gets paid to do those kinds of jobs).
OK, I really am done for now...I think...tomorrow will be a long, sleepy day for me...
Edited 6/16/2006 1:58 am ET by rosa444
Sandra.
"I went to college for free on merit scholarships,"
"You asked about my grades...up until now, they've been excellent"
Fantastic! OK Rose, why didn't you mention this before? You only tell us that you sleep all the time, ah ha I see the truth now! (Smiling). But I think you must be working really hard and doing lots of things right to get such great grades, there's a contradiction going on here! The way you describe yourself seems a LOT different (and harsher) than how well you actually do at things.
You said your classes are too specialized to apply to anything else, what about a physician's assistant or nursing degree, there has to be something! I do think it's important to get a solid degree out of your work if you can, but at the same time have more time to be a photographer.
Does your college advisor or school counselor know about your anxiety issues, and can they do anything to accomodate you?
Is there a branch of medicine, such as research, where you can work alone most of the time? Obviously you've got the brains, girl. Is there a branch of medical photography?
Med school is your life now but you do have to graduate eventually even if you become validictorian, right? Keep that in mind- that even if you decide to stick with it, school will end eventually. And then it's the day to day life as doctor or photographer or (fill in the blank).
Hi Rose,
Thank you ALL again so much. I will probably come back and post (hopefully shorter!) replies to each post...but earlier this evening, that awful feeling just overtook me...I don't know if any two people experience this in exactly the same way, but it felt like a blunt knife being driven through my chest (sorry for the image!)...but I know it wasn't physical pain, just...all of the emotional pain welling up inside of me until it actually hurt my body...I had trouble even catching my breath.
Fortunately an old, close friend happened to call...I didn't go into detail, but he knows my history, and it was still a little comforting to talk. And I took half an Ambien, which calmed me down some. Enough even to go do a minor workout in the gym, which I haven't done in months, to try to burn some of the "bad" energy off...
It's still there, though. The suffering of others, I just can't take it. And my own physical pain, the migraines constantly, and the thought that I'm partly responsible for them by using my "relief" meds too often. On top of the longer-term issues I already wrote books about here.
I am supposed to move tomorrow (just down the hall, though!), so I'm hoping that will keep me occupied (though I need to be studying...my rescheduled test date is approaching again, and still I've done basically nothing). But, especially before I took the Ambien, I felt like I honestly just couldn't take the pain, emotional and physical, anymore...and I know Ambien is no solution to anything and will probably make it worse long-term.
I can't believe I'm in this place again. I'm sure my parents can't believe it either, especially after just having seen me looking happy (and maybe I was?). My neurologist wants me eventually to go into the hospital for a few days to get my migraines sorted out, but I feel I can't even do that since my classmates all start working in that hospital (the only one) on Monday. And now I guess probably would qualify for a psych ward too...but how fun would it be to have THAT rumor get around school?!
I don't want to go to the hospital anyway for either reason...but I guess agreeing to go to the neurology ward for my migraines might be a way of getting some psych help too. But I doubt that I'm at the point that I need either one...I don't need to sit in a bed with an IV and talk to someone...I just want everything to go away, or if not that, just me to go away for at least a good long while...
Sorry, I don't know what triggered this...definitely not you all...you have been such a great help and support. Maybe seeing everyone at school today again, I don't know. Don't worry, though, I'm doing my best to resist these impulses, and I'm not planning out anything "dangerous." I am trying to believe, like Lori said, and hang in there until it passes...sometimes, though, I just doubt my own strength to hang on.
The crazy thing, Lori, is that I didn't even really realize I was depressed until you mentioned it in your post! I guess that goes to show how long-standing it's been. But these horrible "heart-aches" today made it hard for me to deny...then again, maybe I'm just depressed because I'm not doing the career I was suited for?! ah, who knows...
Have a good night, sorry to be such a downer,
Rose
"earlier this evening, that awful feeling just overtook me...I don't know if any two people experience this in exactly the same way, but it felt like a blunt knife being driven through my chest...but I know it wasn't physical pain, just...all of the emotional pain welling up inside of me until it actually hurt my body..."
I do understand that. I guess it's something that all of us here understand all too well. When the feeling strikes sometimes there's nothing I can do but grab onto a raft and ride out the storm.
It feels like a physical force, the psychic and emotional pain of memory, the present, and worry about the future all hitting at once.
I hope the tide has ebbed by now and you feel a bit better. It's like the sea, the tide changes but never goes away completly. It's always there, always a powerful, elemental force.
Rose,
I'm glad you did some relaxing and had a few migraine free days.
It is very interesting that you doctor would look at it from a very holistic point of view, that you aren't happy or something is missing. Most doctors are "it's physical so let's treat it pysically" and don't know how to see how connected our minds and bodies are.
Yes, communication with your parents would definately be an important step.
Good luck and much love (sorry I couldn't be the wise one today)