Defining Marriage is Problematic

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2003
Defining Marriage is Problematic
266
Sat, 02-07-2004 - 10:49am
Laws Can't Define 'Man' or 'Woman,' So How Can They Ban Gay Marriage?

Commentary, William O. Beeman,

Pacific News Service, Feb 05, 2004

Editor's Note: Legislators' attempts to codify marriage as "between a man and a woman" won't work, writes PNS contributor William O. Beeman. Like it or not, there is no single, clear biological, psychological or cultural definition of "male" and "female." Already, courts are faltering on the ambiguity of gender.

The Massachusetts Supreme Court advisory, stating that nothing short of marriage for same-sex couples would satisfy the state constitution, has sent legislators throughout the nation as well as President Bush scrambling to define marriage as between "one man and one woman."

These legislative attempts are doomed, because there is no clear, scientific and strict definition of "man" and "woman." There are millions of people with ambiguous gender -- many of them already married -- who render these absolute categories invalid.

There are at least three ways one might try to codify gender under law -- biologically, psychologically and culturally. On close inspection, all of them fail.

Biologically, one must choose either secondary sexual characteristics -- things like facial hair for men or breast development for women -- or genetic testing as defining markers of gender. Neither method is clear-cut. Some women show male secondary characteristics, and vice versa. Before puberty, things are not necessarily any clearer. A significant proportion of all babies have ambiguous gender development. It has been longstanding -- and now, increasingly, controversial -- medical practice to surgically "reassign" such babies shortly after birth so that they will have only one set of sexual organs.

Sometimes doctors guess wrong, and children are "reassigned" and raised as males, when they are genetically female, and vice versa.

In one condition, androgen insensitivity syndrome, genetic males are born with a genetic immunity to androgens, the hormones that produce male sexual characteristics. Though they are genetic males, these children typically grow up looking like females, although they have no internal female organs.

Although figures are imprecise, experts in intersexuality, such as Dr. Anne Fausto-Sterling of Brown University, estimate that persons born with some degree of ambiguous gender constitute approximately 1 percent of the population. This means that there are 2 million Americans who may be biologically ambiguous.

Psychologically, another dilemma for those who seek to codify gender is the condition known as gender dysphoria, in which a person feels that their true gender is the opposite of that in which they were born. These individuals are often referred to as "transgendered." Some experts estimate as many as 1.2 million Americans are transgendered. Gender dysphoria is a matter of personal identity and has nothing to do with sexual orientation. A male-to-female transgendered person may be attracted to women or to men.

Finally, human societies around the world recognize individuals who are culturally female or culturally male no matter what their physical gender. The "berdache" is an umbrella term used by Europeans to designate a man who is culturally classified as a woman, and who may be a "wife" to another man. The practice is perhaps best known among the Zuñi Indians of Arizona, but is widely seen in other tribal groups as well. Outside of North America, the hijra of India, a cultural "third gender," is important in ceremonial life. Hijra are classified as "neither man nor woman," but they may marry males. These examples of cultural gender ambiguity are only two among dozens throughout the world.

If the United States tries to enact a national law defining gender conditions for marriage, it is only a matter of time before the law falters on one of these rocks of ambiguity. There are undoubtedly existing marriages where the wife is a genetic male or the husband is a genetic female. In a medical examination, if it is determined that this genetic fact is discovered, is the marriage then voided? When post-operative transgendered persons wed, whom will they be allowed to marry -- persons with the opposite set of chromosomes, or people with the opposite set of genitalia?

There has already been one Texas decision where two "women" were allowed to marry, because one of them had originally been a male. We can expect far more stories like this should this legislative circus proceed.

PNS contributor William O. Beeman (William_beeman@brown.edu) teaches anthropology at Brown University.

http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=d3362852002e314524ffb9ac8eac3c91

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 02-23-2004 - 1:15pm
I still think that there is a fair compromise here.

For the people that are against same sex marriage, call it something else - BUT -

For the people who wish to obtain the same sex marriages, give them the SAME legal standing as those who are married.

This solves the problem for both sides in a pretty simple, and what seems to be a fair compromise.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-12-2003
Tue, 02-24-2004 - 6:58am
History has shown that separate but equal rarely is, but I think you are trying to be fair-minded about the issue. We spend too much time and energy trying to make everything inoffensive to everybody. People were offended and outraged when the laws against racial segregation were repealed. Fortunately, most folks got over it and, dire predicitions to the contrary, the world did not end. There were those who said the separation of the races was God's law and that we were inviting the Apocalypse--people say the same thing about gay marriage.

As a secular legal and social matter, there are better arguments for gay marriage than there are against it. As a religious matter, I'm content to let God sort 'em out. People can bicker all day about what God wants, but who knows? If you see four horsemen approaching, you'll know we're in trouble, but with all that goes on in the world these days, I don't think gay marriage will be the thing that brings about the crack of doom.

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-18-2000
Tue, 02-24-2004 - 8:18am

>"People can bicker all day about what God wants, but who knows?"<


Pat Robertson has a direct line to the Almighty.

 


Photobucket&nbs

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-23-2003
Tue, 02-24-2004 - 11:23am

Splitting hairs because there's nothing harmful in the Mayor's actions.


iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2003
Tue, 02-24-2004 - 4:37pm
Felony is a serious crime, such as murder or rape. Whatever the mayor did, it wasn't a felony. The comparison with Rosa Parks is a matter of breaking a law which it seems both did.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2003
Tue, 02-24-2004 - 4:43pm
If God tells Robertson the following then the Bill of Rights is in danger?

"Robertson predicts that "the Christian Coalition will be the most powerful political force in America by the end of this decade." And, "We have enough votes to run this country...and when the people say, 'We've had enough,' we're going to take over!"--Pat Robertson"

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Tue, 02-24-2004 - 6:34pm
I agree with you 100%,Let them do what they want but dont ever call it a marriage.Give them time and theyll come up with a name for this type of union between two people.If these people want to go aginst Adam and Eve,and what God created then there going to have to do it on there own.But keep us NORMAL people out of it!And keep Politics and George Bush out of it! We shouldnt have to fight your battles,you made your beds and now you can lie in them! MARRIAGE:a union between a Man and a Women.Thats the way I feel and im damm proud of it!!!
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Tue, 02-24-2004 - 6:53pm
Speak for yourself!!! Those children shouldnt be there in the first place. As far as im concerned theyre already in danger just being in that TYPE of household! No it doesnt bother me and no they dont deserve any benifets! Ya call me selfish, WHATEVER.
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-02-2004
Tue, 02-24-2004 - 10:12pm
Look... I'm sorry to burst your happy little Christian bubbles, but this country has something you might have heard of. Maybe seperation of church and state rings a bell to some of you? You're (speaking generally to the anti-gay marriage people) a Christian, that's fine with me, so am I actually. You don't believe in gay marriage, well don't participate in one then.

Honestly, can someone actually give one GOOD reason homosexuals should not be allowed to legally marry without using personal or biblical beliefs? Almost all cultures have some sort of marriage ritual, it's not only a "christian" thing. Some cultures, like some native american tribes and some traditonal Indian beliefs also believed in cases were marriage between two men or two women was okay. So it's not even a cultural universal that marriage is between one man and one woman.

And let's not bring children into the disscussion because a) that's a whole new issue and b)those who say children in gay marriages are in any more danger than a child in a hetrosexual(s) household are simply uneducated and close minded people. Honestly, how does it feel to be a bigot?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 02-24-2004 - 11:20pm
Well legally, you are wrong, as the CA penal code says that what Mayor Gavin Newsom did is a felony.

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