Rumsfeld: A Surprise Visit to Baghdad

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-18-2000
Rumsfeld: A Surprise Visit to Baghdad
12
Thu, 05-13-2004 - 9:35am

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/13/international/middleeast/13CND-RUMS.html?pagewanted=2&ei=5062&en=87c1ac4cae885ce7&partner=GOOGLE&ex=1085112000


Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, making an unannounced trip to Iraq amid worldwide furor over abuse of detainees, flew into Baghdad today for meetings with commanders to discuss the conditions of American-run prisons here.


``We care about the detainees being treated right,'' Mr. Rumsfeld said. ``We care about soldiers behaving right.''


Mr. Rumsfeld indicated that he may not be satisfied with an explanation that the abuse at Abu Ghraib prison was solely the acts of a small band of misguided military police, and that he may be looking higher up the chain of command.


``We care about command systems working,'' he said.


Abu Ghraib prison, for decades the scene of murder and torture under Saddam Hussein, has now become, in photos circulating the globe, a symbol of abuse by American military jailers and a stain on American pride.


Mr. Rumsfeld cautioned that his mission to Iraq should not be viewed as a solo journey that could heal the wounds to America's image from the detainee abuse.


``We're not on an inspection tour,'' he said. ``If anyone thinks I'm there to throw water on the fire, they're wrong.''


Even so, Bush Administration officials have expressed fears that the signature image of the war is no longer cheering Iraqis toppling Mr. Hussein's statue in Baghdad, but may instead become American soldiers laughing and giving ``thumbs up'' signs as Iraqi detainees are abused and humiliated.


Mr. Rumsfeld, who has fended off calls from some in Congress for his resignation, made clear he was aware that this trip will likewise be scrutinized throughout Iraq - including by some who might claim jurisdiction to try the American soldiers in their own courts once sovereignty is returned on June 30.


``The United States government is going to take care of the people who end up being convicted of some wrongdoing,'' Mr. Rumsfeld said. ``The justice system of the United States is serious, professional - and it's underway.''


General Richard B. Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, flew with Mr. Rumsfeld to Iraq; that was another sign of the unusual nature of the trip, because the Pentagon's most senior civilian and military leader rarely travel aboard the same aircraft.


General Myers said he believed that opinion around the world, and especially in the Arab world, can best be satisfied by allowing the military justice system to run its course and by punishing those found guilty of violence and abuse of detainees.


He warned that the cry for public release of all the photographs and video images from Abu Ghraib - confiscated as part of a criminal investigation - could violate the rights to due process of the accused, who then could argue for their charges to be dismissed.


``The worst possible outcome is that they get off, that somehow through all of the discussions that we've been having, and somehow through releasing evidence that we have, that the people who deserve to be punished are somehow released,'' General Myers said.


Of the actions by American military personnel at Abu Ghraib, he said: ``This is a terrible tragedy. We're not going to ever try to say that it is not.''


Mr. Rumsfeld noted that some of the images on the three discs that are central to the Abu Ghraib investigation are pictures solely of American soldiers, and have nothing to do with detainee abuse. The rights to privacy of those troops must be protected, he said.


But rather than continue to suffer through a slow release of selected photographs broadcast by television or printed in newspapers and magazines, Mr. Rumsfeld said ``As far as I'm concerned, I'd be happy to release them all to the public and get it behind us.''


But he said a number of Bush Administration legal advisers throughout the executive branch were not recommending such an action.


Mr. Rumsfeld bristled at complaints that the Pentagon was engaging in a cover-up by not more rapidly bringing the provocative details of the abuse allegations to the attention of the President, Congress or the public.


Such a charge, Mr. Rumsfeld said, is ``unfair, inaccurate and wrong. And if I find any evidence that it's true, I'll stop it.''


He then took a shot at the Arab news media, which he said has filled newspapers and news broadcasts with anti-American propaganda about the mission in Iraq.


``We have been lied about, however, day after day, week after week, month after month for the last 12 months in the Arab press, in Al Jazeera and Al Arabiya,'' he said.


For the first leg of his voyage, conducted under tight secrecy and heavy security, Mr. Rumsfeld flew nonstop to Kuwait aboard one of the four ``Doomsday'' airplanes designed to allow the President, the Defense Secretary or the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs to communicate from aloft in case of nuclear war.


The modified Boeing 747, called the E-4B National Airborne Operations Center, twice hooked up to tankers during the 14-hour flight, and crew members said the aircraft was chosen because of its ability to fly long distances without landing for fuel.


The surprise visit here was only the latest act in a drama that began in a prison west of Baghdad and is now playing out in the executive ring of the Pentagon, on Capitol Hill and inside the White House.


Mr. Rumsfeld testified in back-to-back hearings before the Senate and House on Friday, and then on Monday hosted President Bush at the Pentagon, where Mr. Bush gave his Defense Secretary a full-throated endorsement. Before flying from Andrews Air Force Base on Wednesday, Mr. Rumsfeld was again grilled on Capitol Hill.


Also traveling with Mr. Rumsfeld was Vice Adm. Albert Church, the Navy inspector general, who spent May 6 and 7 at the military's detention facility at GuantÀanamo, Cuba.


Admiral Church said his inquiry ``documented eight minor infractions'' that he said ranged from humiliations to mild physical contact.


The eight cases included striking one detainee while handcuffed, improper use of pepper spray and giving one detainee a demeaning haircut.


Disciplinary action, which included letters of admonishment and reductions in rank, occurred rapidly after reports of the eight incidents, which occurred within the last 18 months to two years, reached commanders.


``Disciplinary action was taken quickly,'' Admiral Church said.


He said that the detention center at GuantÀanamo should continue to review a set of questions and complaints from inspectors from the International Committee of the Red Cross, but he gave no details.

cl-Libraone~

 


Photobucket&nbs

Pages

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-18-2000
Thu, 05-13-2004 - 9:47am

This whole interview is worth a read. Gives voice to the unlisted solder.


>"Long before the pictures taken inside Abu Ghraib circled the globe, there were warning signs that something had gone terribly wrong with the U.S.-run prison system in Iraq.

A year ago, several soldiers at another prison camp in Iraq, Camp Bucca in Southern Iraq, were accused of abusing prisoners. They were not court-martialed, but they were put out of the Army. "<


>"Being an MP at Camp Bucca was difficult duty. The soldiers lived in huge, crowded tents, circled by barbed wire. The wind was relentless, the sun was searing, and the gulf between this MP and the Muslim prisoners seemed unbridgeable. "<


>"It’s a charge echoed by then-Master Sgt. Lisa Girman and Spc. Tim Canjar. Girman is a state patrol officer with 17 years in the reserves. She specializes in detaining prisoners of war. Canjar is a student at Penn State.

The Army accused both soldiers of severely beating inmates, but that charge was never challenged in court. Instead, they were given administrative dismissals. "<


>"“The Palm Sunday riot was probably the worst. My compound was the one that started the Palm Sunday riots. When they started that riot ... at one point it was me and another soldier guarding. I was watching 535 prisoners on my side,” says Canjar. "<

>""These rocks are huge rocks, and at one point, I heard there might be a weapon inside ... and there are weapons in all compounds, homemade weapons, shanks," says Girman.

"They were allowed to have razors. They were allowed to have anything they could get their hands on. Because again, the chain of command didn't recognize the need to take weapons off these people because they don't think they're dangerous."

The two soldiers also say their command staff was missing in action. "<


The above are quotes. Lots more.............


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/11/60II/main616849.shtml

cl-Libraone~

 


Photobucket&nbs

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-05-2004
Thu, 05-13-2004 - 10:26am
You know what? This no longer matters. The prisoner abuse is nothing more than a pimple on an otherwise clear complexion compared to the evil we are up against. After seeing the video I no longer care about any of this.

I can tell that you haven't watched it yourself. I think every man and woman in America should be required to see this for themselves. The cold blooded, brutality of it is beyond words. I will never ever get over, not only the horrificly shocking act, but the sounds that this young man produced during his slow and torturous murder will forever be in my memory.

I am enraged like I have never been enraged after witnessing this. The prisoner abuse is nothing compared to it. The fact that Muslim leaders are not vocally condemning it enrages me even further.

Yes, you need to look at it. Everyone, especially the left-wing should witness this for themselves and see exactly what it is that they are supporting. I am totally and utterly disgusted.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-18-2000
Thu, 05-13-2004 - 10:43am

>"Yes, you need to look at it. Everyone, especially the left-wing should witness this for themselves and see exactly what it is that they are supporting. I am totally and utterly disgusted."<


I find repeatedly harping on about the "left-wing" in such negative inflammatory

 


Photobucket&nbs

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-05-2004
Thu, 05-13-2004 - 10:57am
I don't think that you as an individual support brutal acts. But it is my opinion that the left wing, by continuously focusing on Anti-American hatred, instead of where the focus really belongs, is doing just that. I find *that* not only offensive and insulting, but horribly disgusting and dangerous after watching this video.

Watch it and then tell me how you feel.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2004
Thu, 05-13-2004 - 1:06pm
I'm really not following your argument here.



So do you believe that individual liberals can dissent and not "be with" the terrorists (of which they have been repeatedly accused), but liberals as a group do not qualify for that acceptance? So perhaps your liberal friend (or local cl) may not be guilty of that which you charge, but the liberals you don't know are? It's not you, it's the rest of them?



You find what insulting? A viewpoint that you have projected onto liberals? And how does your watching of the video make American liberals worse today than they were yesterday?

I completely sympathize with your outrage over the video, which is disturbing, appalling and horrifying, but I believe you may be displacing anger in an opportunistic and unfair manner.

Glassy

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-05-2004
Thu, 05-13-2004 - 1:29pm
Opportunistic??? Watch the vido and then tell me.

This was not "my argument". Simply stated I did not accuse her individually as supporting these brutal acts. The *actions* of the left wing inadvertedly do, however.

If I say anything more I will become too emotional. We are fighting against true evil. Watch it and see for yourself and see if you still think it's wise to spout the enemy's propaganda against America. If you are not some sort of sub-human it should change you forever.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2004
Thu, 05-13-2004 - 2:49pm
Again, I ask, HOW???? What actions by American liberals support the brutal execution of an American by al-Qaeda or the equally horrific mutilation and burning alive of the civilian contractors?

You see these acts and blame liberals? The terrorists say it was in retaliation for the prisoner abuse, so you blame liberals? There is an element of denial there, as well as opportunistic displacement of justifiable anger.

This is the price of war, and those who advocated the invasion cannot now point at those who opposed it and place the blame on them for the horrible things that happen as a result. This man would never have been killed, nor the 4 cilivian contractors who were killed just as brutally, if we had not invaded. Speculation can be made on what might have happened if we didn't go, but fact cannot be removed from the results of us taking the course chosen.

That said, I am truly sorry that this has caused you so much personal anguish. The brutal acts of this war continue to worsen as tensions rise and events escalate.

Glassy

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-05-2004
Thu, 05-13-2004 - 3:05pm
The leadership of the left wing has politicized this situation to the detriment of America and our troops. This emboldens the enemy and gives them hope to carry on. Because of our own obsession with the small number of wrongdoers that we have in our midst, we have emboldened them to make that wedge between right and left in this country wider. I really think everyone should see this to see exactly what is going on.

You are right, this is the price of war with this kind of evil being. We can either fight back or sit and wait to be slaughtered. Either way they will be at war with us. Ignoring them and sitting and waiting to be attacked got us the devastation of 9-11.

Glassy, I really think that every man and woman in America should see this. It will open your eyes. I had no idea what this really was until yesterday, and I will never be the same. People really need to wake up, put their politics aside and face this. It is the only way to know.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-02-2003
Thu, 05-13-2004 - 3:23pm
It was nice to see Rumsfeld vist and give a needed moral boost to the troops, after all they are the ones on the front line dieing. They are the military personel who are just following orders and doing their job.

Runsfeld did show courage in doing what he did and by going directly to the jail of the abuse to demostrate his keen interes in getting to the bottom of the source.

I do see how well the so called arab community responded to the vicious beheading of a Mr Berg. As an example.....Hesbolla ,,,didn't like it at all..................why...because it distracted from showing the infidels abusing the poor innocent iraqui crimmals. Remember, that specific cell block was for the true hardened terrorist not the general people who were picked up for questioning.

Some arab countries didn't even say anything about it at all other, just some writting note in the paper but basicly a small small note. Hummmmmm exactly like with Davif peral and the 4 contractors who were burned and dragged thru the streets.

Like it on not, the news will allways slant against the USA.

It doesn't make any difference of how many good deeds the USA does or who is in charge, that news will allways be filtered out.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2004
Thu, 05-13-2004 - 4:26pm
But there is the fault in your logic. You cannot say that we would be getting slaughtered if we had not invaded Iraq with any degree of certainty. But we most definitely ARE being slaughtered by having invaded Iraq. The body count grows each day.

Also faulty logic, as the sad reality of it is that the actions of American intelligence and troops are the root cause of this particular situation. If they had not abused the prisoners, the retaliation in the form of the beheading of this man would not have occurred. And how does the fact that outspoken conservatives like Rush Limbaugh are CONDONING the abuse help the cause of America and our troops? And the fact that Democrats are condemning the actions of those accused of the abuse and their superiors is a bad thing?

Do you mean besides a war?

Exaclty what those against the war were trying to explain BEFORE we went to war: You can't fight a war against an idea, and too many are now paying the ultimate price for the folly that force against Iraq or any other country can change the actions of religious fundamentalist terrorists.

Know what exactly?

I hope your mind will become as open as your eyes, because the ultra-emotional reaction to the beheading of this man as opposed to the death of any other man or woman in this fight IS EXACTLY WHAT THE TERRORISTS WANT.

Glassy

Pages