Proof of WMDs?

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-06-2003
Proof of WMDs?
157
Mon, 05-17-2004 - 2:43pm
>>Sarin Nerve Agent Bomb Explodes in Iraq

BAGHDAD, Iraq - A roadside bomb containing deadly sarin nerve agent exploded near a U.S. military convoy, the U.S. military said Monday. It was believed to be the first confirmed discovery of any of the banned weapons that the United States cited in making its case for the Iraq war.

Two members of a military bomb squad were treated for "minor exposure," but no serious injuries were reported.

...

<<

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040517/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_sarin

thoughts?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-03-2003
In reply to: jadethief
Mon, 05-17-2004 - 2:53pm
Well, we knew for certain that they were there at one time. That we hadn't found any since going in after them evidently means we were looking in the wrong places, and evidently are continuing to look in the wrong places since this one found us, not the other way around.

And it probably won't be the last I'm afraid... where there's one of these things, there's probably more, and they'll be rearing their ugly heads as those utilizing them get them to the area's they want to deliver them at.


~mark~

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-23-2003
In reply to: jadethief
Mon, 05-17-2004 - 3:08pm

I was just about to post the same story...so I just decided to post the parts that I believe are the most relevant.


iVillage Member
Registered: 07-25-2003
In reply to: jadethief
Mon, 05-17-2004 - 3:15pm
CNN & Fox are also reporting that an administration official confirmed that the Iraq Survey Team (the WMD hunters) found mustard gas last week in a similar jerryrigged explosive device.

Renee

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-03-2003
In reply to: jadethief
Mon, 05-17-2004 - 3:26pm
Begging your pardon Hugger, but how is the rather obvious existance of this device not proof of there being WMD's in Iraq? In and of themselves this sarin warhead and the mustard-gas shell aren't proof of there being *large stockpiles* of such devices, but as evidenced by these examples themselves such things obviously exist there in some quantity.


~mark~

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-25-2003
In reply to: jadethief
Mon, 05-17-2004 - 3:32pm
Didn't you hear the sound of the goal posts being moved?

Renee

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-06-2003
In reply to: jadethief
Mon, 05-17-2004 - 3:32pm
>>where there's one of these things, there's probably more, and they'll be rearing their ugly heads as those utilizing them get them to the area's they want to deliver them at. <<

Is this evidence of current (or rather, recent) programs? Or just evidence that the government wasn't fully aware of what was going on in their own country?

Could this bomb and the sarin agent have been sitting on a dusty shelf somewhere unbeknownst to anyone? Could they have been lurking in some terrorist stockpile and not necessarily be evidence of a program?

And I'm not directing these questions at you in particular, Mark, just throwing out some of the issues that are coming up around here....

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-18-2000
In reply to: jadethief
Mon, 05-17-2004 - 3:39pm

>"Kimmitt said the artillery round was of an old style that Saddam Hussein's regime had declared it no longer possessed after the Persian Gulf War.


Kimmitt said it appeared that whoever set up the roadside bomb was unaware that it contained the chemicals."<


Quote from: U.S. probes discovery of shell believed to contain sarin gas.


http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/17/iraq.main/index.html


>"Since the war ended, the U.S.-led coalition has found several caches that tested positive for mustard gas but later turned out to contain missile fuel or other chemicals.

Other discoveries turned out to be old caches that already had been tagged by U.N. inspectors and were scheduled for destruction. "<


Quote..........


http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4100769,00.html


U.N. destroying mustard gas shells. 2-12-2003

>'U.N. weapons inspectors Wednesday were to begin destroying 10 artillery shells filled with potentially deadly mustard gas that were found by previous inspection teams."<


>"After inspectors returned to Iraq in 2002, a chemical team went to al-Muthanna in early December, found the artillery shells and secured them. "<


Quotes.........


http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/02/12/sprj.irq.inspections/index.html

cl-Libraone~

 


Photobucket&nbs

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-23-2003
In reply to: jadethief
Mon, 05-17-2004 - 3:40pm
That's pretty much what I meant, although that's not how it came out

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-05-2003
In reply to: jadethief
Mon, 05-17-2004 - 3:43pm

Didn't you hear the sound of the goal posts being moved?


Well lets see, first it was because Saddam was an immenint threat with massive stock piles of WMDs, then it was because Saddam was "about" to be an immenint threat that could make massive stock piles of WMDs, then it was Saddam had "some" WMDs and had "program related activities" with "capabilities" to produce more, and now of course it is just Saddam was a mean guy with a few bombs...


We have found a couple old bombs with old ingrediants that were too old to be effective.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-03-2003
In reply to: jadethief
Mon, 05-17-2004 - 3:45pm
>>>"Is this evidence of current (or rather, recent) programs? Or just evidence that the government wasn't fully aware of what was going on in their own country? "<<<

Probably not recent, meaning in the last few years. But from the type of warhead and chemicals involved (as well as statements from Iraq back in the mid-90's) they could have been manufactured and stored as late as '95 or '96. As for that government not knowing what was going in in their own country, Hussein had a pretty direct managerial style with those who didn't keep him up to date... headhunter. But in his case it wasn't merely an analogy.

>>>"Could this bomb and the sarin agent have been sitting on a dusty shelf somewhere unbeknownst to anyone? Could they have been lurking in some terrorist stockpile and not necessarily be evidence of a program?"<<<

Sitting on a shelf (have to be a pretty sturdy shelf Jade... 155mm shells aren't light) unknown to anyone? Not likely. Someone had to have put it/them there, and someone at some point in time likely logged that fact. Of course, there was a bunch of documents shredded by the Hussein regime over the years of the UN inspections, and they could have been "misplaced". As for such things lurking in a terrorist stockpile, that's possible. But the mere existance of sarin and mustard-gas are pretty solid indicators that there was a program of some sophisticatoin in Iraq to develop them at some point in time. The warhead package for them (especially the sarin used here) isn't something to be easily improvised if done at all outside of a weapons program for the devices.

There are others issues floating around, to be sure. And there are certainly going to be questions asked. But the question of whether or not such devices (in whatever quantity) exist in Iraq has pretty much now been answered to some degree.


~mark~

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