Bizarre Bulldozer Story

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-25-2003
Bizarre Bulldozer Story
54
Sat, 06-05-2004 - 12:42pm
Residents of this mountain tourist town of 2,200 described a bizarre scene as the bulldozer slowly crashed through buildings, trees and lampposts, with dozens of officers walking ahead or behind it, firing into the machine and shouting at townspeople to flee.

"It looked like a futuristic tank," said Rod Moore, who watched the dozer rumble past within 15 feet of his auto garage and towing company.

One officer, later identified as Trainor, was perched on top, firing shot after shot into the top and once dropping an explosive down the exhaust pipe.

"He just kept shooting," Moore said. "The dozer was still going. He threw what looked like a flash-bang down the exhaust. It didn't do a thing..."

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040605/D830SQHG0.html

Renee

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-03-2003
Wed, 06-09-2004 - 7:10pm
>>>"its safe to say that most people's so-called 'breaking point' is either so far beyond what any of us are likely to encounter in our lives as to be practically meaningless or when most people at some dark moment in their lives do reach their 'breaking point' they don't violently kill or destroy themselves or others."<<<

Not so. I'm pretty confident that many or most people on these boards know someone or are aware of someone second-hand who has taken their own life or otherwise reached a personal breaking point. That "most people" don't reach that point doesn't mean that the point doesn't exist for them, merely that they haven't been subjected to sufficient cause to get that far gone.

Once more, with feeling, it cannot logically be claimed that that point doesn't exist because there's no way to predict where that point is or what it would take to reach it for any given individual. You don't know where the line is until it's crossed.


~mark~

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-25-2003
Wed, 06-09-2004 - 7:10pm
<>

Unfortunately the type of person who needs this warning the most, the ones who alienate those around them and then feel sorry for themselves because they are all alone, usually ignore advice or help when it's offered.

Renee

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-03-2003
Wed, 06-09-2004 - 7:19pm
Don't buy it, because that's not what we're saying. We're not speaking of ANY specific circumstances, ANY specific situation, or the LIKELYHOOD of any given individual taking similar actions. Our argument has been about the *POTENTIAL* for such actions, and that the breaking point for any given individual or their resulting actions cannot be accurately predicted.

What also cannot be logically claimed is that because few people react in that manner few people have the potential of doing so. That most people don't reach that point doesn't mean that the point doesn't exist for them, it just means they haven't been subjected to sufficient motivation to react in that or a similar manner.

Is there a particular reason the logic of that escapes you?


~mark~

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-25-2003
Wed, 06-09-2004 - 7:42pm
<>

Call me whacky but I wouldn't describe a suicide rate of 15 out of 100,000 as relatively common. When you take away suicides that are committed on impulse, as acts of passion, or due to the immediate influence of alcohol or drugs because I've been very clear that's not what I'm talking about, those that are committed by terminal patients, and those that are committed because of some psychosis, the rate goes down considerably more.

Renee

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-25-2003
Wed, 06-09-2004 - 7:59pm
Hogwash.

Renee

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-03-2003
Wed, 06-09-2004 - 8:05pm
Fine. So why don't you demonstrate for us all how you or anyone else can predict where that line is for a given individual and how you know what actions they will or will not take. Prove that because many people haven't reached that point that the point doesn't exist for them.

Go for it.


~mark~

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-25-2003
Wed, 06-09-2004 - 8:11pm
We're going around in circles. If you want a response, go back and read my previous posts.



Renee

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-03-2003
Wed, 06-09-2004 - 8:12pm
Yet they still happen with regularity. The point remains that we're speaking of the potential for such actions, not where the line is, what the motivation would have to be or the frequency of that line being reached or exceeded.

To say that most people don't have such a line since they haven't gone over the edge is the same as claiming that because you haven't done something to this point in your life that you could never do it; that because (for another example) you've never had a certain disease to this point in your life that you can never get that disease. That's an invalid, illogical argument no matter how you slice it. Future behavior of those exercising free will cannot be predicted with certainty, nor can anyone predict the nature of situations which may or may not cause an individual to cross the line between rational behavior and destructive and/or irrational behavior.

If you can predict such things with any objective assurance please enlighten us all on how you do it.


~mark~

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-03-2003
Wed, 06-09-2004 - 8:16pm
I have, and those posts are consistent in their embrasing of an invalid, illogical premise, that you or anyone else can KNOW what they would or would not do in a situation which has yet to present itself. We're talking about potentials, possibilities of actions based on the personal, individual perspectives and emotions of individuals.

Please tell us how you can know or predict those actions with any objective certainty.


~mark~

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-25-2003
Wed, 06-09-2004 - 8:21pm
Read this slowly and carefully, and then re-read it at least twice and give it at least a few minutes to digest before responding.

I NEVER SAID ANYONE'S ACTIONS CAN BE PREDICTED OR DENIED THERE WAS A BREAKING POINT. I SAID MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT PHYSICALLY DESRTUCTIVE WHEN THEY REACH IT, AND I BELIEVE MY POSITION IS AN IMPERICAL GIVEN.

GOODNIGHT

Renee