Southern Baptists weigh quitting allianc
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| Mon, 06-14-2004 - 5:35pm |
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apus_story.asp?category=1110&slug=Southern%20Baptists
Monday, June 14, 2004 · Last updated 12:30 p.m. PT
Southern Baptists weigh quitting alliance
By RICHARD N. OSTLING
AP RELIGION WRITER
INDIANAPOLIS -- At a meeting that marks the 25th anniversary of the Southern Baptist Convention's rightward shift, the effects of that swing may be felt Tuesday in a vote on pulling out of the Baptist World Alliance and the election of another conservative president.
The executive committee of the SBC - America's largest Protestant body, with 16.3 million members - voted in February to quit the world alliance. Thousands of voters at the annual gathering are likely to approve the move.
Based in Falls Church, Va., the alliance is a loose association representing 46 million Baptists in 211 denominations. SBC officials have complained that the organization is too theologically liberal, and that it has taken on an anti-American tone.
A pullout would mean the loss of the alliance's largest member body and a third of its income. The alliance was founded 99 years ago, with the SBC among its primary founders.
The next president of the denomination also will be elected Tuesday, with the Rev. Bobby Welch of Daytona Beach, Fla., the only announced candidate.
There was no such unity 25 years ago, when conservative Southern Baptists - gathered in Houston - won a critical presidential contest, electing the Rev. Adrian Rogers of Memphis, Tenn. Other conservative leaders followed, using their appointment powers to enforce strict policies at denominational agencies and schools.
Rogers was to preach at a pre-convention pastors' conference but stayed home due to heart trouble and delivered a video greeting.
Other leaders in what the winners call the "conservative resurgence" and their moderate opponents label the "fundamentalist takeover" were to speak at a 25th anniversary celebration Monday night.
The world alliance split has been simmering for months, and the SBC has denied the alliance exhibit space at this week's meeting.
A December report from an SBC task force complained that some alliance participants had questioned "the truthfulness of Holy Scripture," refused to affirm the necessity of conscious faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and promoted "women as preachers and pastors."(me: GASP!!)
The report also said some groups had taken on "a decided anti-American tone," and had criticized the SBC and its foreign mission board.
The last straw came in 2003 when the alliance accepted as a member the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, a rival group to the SBC formed by moderates.
When the SBC leadership decided to propose the pullout to the annual meeting, the moderate editor of the Texas convention newspaper charged that "fundamentalists must control. What they cannot control, they abandon and undermine."
However, officials of the alliance and the SBC conferred in April, and said if a pullout does occur, they'll continue regular talks to resolve issues so the SBC can rejoin "in the not too distant future."
Meanwhile, the SBC women's auxiliary plans to continue cooperating with the alliance, while the denomination explores alternative ties to evangelicals overseas. Another measure up for approval here would allow non-Baptist U.S. evangelicals to join the SBC's health, insurance and retirement plans.(me: Is this a church or an insurance company??)
On Wednesday, the meeting will issue statements on various issues, with gay marriage and public schools dominating the pre-convention speculation on what the resolutions committee will propose.
One text, submitted to the committee by two prominent hard-liners, would encourage Southern Baptists to remove their children from "officially Godless" public schools in favor of Christian day schools or home schooling.
If the committee proposes a statement on education, observers expect it will water down that language.
Another issue that could arise is outgoing SBC President Jack Graham's call for another study on whether the denomination should drop its "Southern" name to underscore its national and international reach.
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I understand your feelings. However, the church allows for different roles for its members. There is Bibilical scipture about the roles of a man and a woman. One of the roles that a man has, in the church, is to lead the congregation. A woman can be as dedicated as a man, she just has a different role in the church. Claiming discrimnation because of these defined and accepted roles would only come from an outsider.
I tend to agree with that, but the same could be said for those of Muslim background that feel the same way about the "roles" that women are allowed to serve.
James
janderson_ny@yahoo.com
CL Ask A Guy
I'm not sure I can see a situation where this would be the case. It the other option was better than I would support that. I guess I don't understand the premise of the scenario.
First off and this totally off topic but "give their all plus another 100%" Just isn't possible, I can't stand that saying. If you gave your all plus 100% then that is actually your 100%. 101% is impossible.
"And there you would be dead wrong. It is a combination of parental invovlement with teachers who give their all plus another 100%"
Doubt it. The primary reaseon for a child's success is the child and the parent. The teachers and schools are just a means of achieving the education, they aren't essential. If that were the case all children in failing schools would fail. That isn't the case. Students that are home schooled would fail as well. Students with un-interested parents would fail. It is not always a combination of parents and teachers. Your school sounds like Utopia, though I doubt Utopia exists.
Jim
I'm not sure I can see a situation where this would be the case. It the other option was better than I would support that. I guess I don't understand the premise of the scenario.
Guess that can only come with seeing shades of gray...
maybe, or maybe such a situation is strictly hypothetical.
"Oh puh-lease. Haven't you ever heard of someone giving '110%'...meaning that they go beyond the norm in their efforts?"
Yea I've heard of it, doesn't make it possible; just a way of making someone's achievement seem more valuable because they worked harder then normal. That just means you don't give your all the rest of the time. If making one's accomplishments seem grander buy giving "110%" then go for it.
"Home schooled students have failed...or at least their parents have. "
What does this mean? Some home schoolers or all home schoolers. If it is the latter then I'll be glad to show you the over whelming success of home schoolers.
"I'm just sick and tired of hearing some say that ALL the public schools are lousy...they aren't"
Agreed. Not all public schools are bad. Haven't heard that said.
Yea I've heard of it, doesn't make it possible; just a way of making someone's achievement seem more valuable because they worked harder then normal. That just means you don't give your all the rest of the time. If making one's accomplishments seem grander buy giving "110%" then go for it.
Go ahead and nitpick.
I said to begin with it was a pet peeve of mine, not worth debate really. Oh and I have experienced what you've described, I just view it differently. I am amazed and how much a person can do when they really push themselves.
"If I'd meant all, I would have said all."
Good enough. Although "Home schooled students have failed..." implies all not some.
"That's what you implied when you said your children would never set foot in a public school."
I never implied that, you read more meaning than I typed. My children won't go to public schools. The schools in my area are substandard. Their curriculum is a joke, their attempt to teach elementary schoolers sex ed is a disgrace. I could go on. My children will not be indoctrinated in the public school system. I'll home school, if that doesn't work for my children then I will find a private school with more traditional values and a higher standard for education then the public schools. There are good public schools but they are not good enough for my children, at least in my neighborhood.
Jim
"If I'd meant all, I would have said all."
Good enough. Although "Home schooled students have failed..." implies all not some.
Not if taken in context with the rest of what I wrote.
Way to show your ignorence about Islam. Most Muslims are not fanatical zealots, but rather down to Earth people like most of everyone else. Do you always judge groups of people based on a few extremists?
Anyway, the SBC is awful. I have a friend who is a member, and she invited me to her church, and let me tell you, it was one of the worst churches I've ever been to. I'm Methodist, and I'm quite happy with my denomination, so I have no clue what made me want to go, but I did. I'm not going to sit here and list the things that bothered me about that church, but they are the biggest group of snotty, ignorant, unaccepting people I've ever been with. It's no wonder that nearly all the people I know, who were brought up Christian and later turned away from the faith, were raised Southern Baptist. I don't think I would be able to have faith in God if I hung around these people all the time!
The word "Islamist" was quoted.
"but they (SBC) are the biggest group of snotty, ignorant, unaccepting people I've ever been with."
More of the pot calling the kettle black isn't it?
(My last summary may have been a personal attack and I fear cl-libraone's iron hammer)
:)
Jim
Edited 6/18/2004 5:01 pm ET ET by vader716
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