No al Qaeda, Iraq cooperation
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| Thu, 06-17-2004 - 4:34am |
The report contradicts statements from the Bush administration that Saddam Hussein had ties to al Qaeda.
In response, a senior administration official traveling with President Bush in Tampa, Florida, said, "We stand by what Powell and Tenet have said," referring to previous statements by Secretary of State Colin Powell and CIA Director George Tenet that described such links.
In February 2003, Secretary of State Colin Powell told the United Nations that Iraq was harboring Zarqawi, a "collaborator of Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda lieutenants," and he said Iraq's denials of ties to al Qaeda "are simply not credible."
In September, Cheney said Iraq had been "the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11."
Bush, responding to criticism of Cheney's comment, said there was no evidence Saddam's government was linked to the September 11 attacks.
Just this week Bush and Cheney have made comments alleging ties between al Qaeda and Iraq. ( Full story )
Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. John Kerry said, "the administration misled America."
"The administration reached too far," he told Detroit radio station WDET. "They did not tell the truth to Americans about what was happening or their own intentions."
The commission's report says bin Laden "explored possible cooperation with Iraq during his time in Sudan, despite his opposition to Hussein's secular regime. Bin Laden had in fact at one time sponsored anti-Saddam Islamists in Iraqi Kurdistan.
"The Sudanese, to protect their own ties with Iraq, reportedly persuaded bin Laden to cease this support and arranged for contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda."
A senior Iraqi intelligence officer reportedly made three visits to Sudan, finally meeting bin Laden in 1994.
Bin Laden is said to have requested space to establish training camps, as well as assistance in procuring weapons, but Iraq apparently never responded.
"There have been reports that contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda also occurred after bin Laden had returned to Afghanistan, but they do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship," the report said.
"Two senior bin Laden associates have adamantly denied" any relationship, the report said.
The panel also dismissed reports that Atta met with an Iraqi intelligence officer in the Czech Republic on April 9, 2000. "We do not believe that such a meeting occurred."
The report said that Atta was in Virginia on April 4 -- evidenced by video that shows him withdrawing $8,000 from an ATM -- and he was in Florida by April 11 if not before.
The report also found that there was no "convincing evidence that any government financially supported al Qaeda before 9/11" other than the limited support provided by the Taliban when bin Laden arrived in Afghanistan.
The toppling of the Taliban regime "fundamentally changed" al Qaeda, leaving it decentralized and altering bin Laden's role.
Prior to the attacks, bin Laden approved all al Qaeda operations and often chose targets and the operatives himself, the report said.
"After al Qaeda lost Afghanistan after 9/11, it fundamentally changed. The organization is far more decentralized. Bin Laden's seclusion forced operational commanders and cell leaders to assume greater authority; they are now making the command decisions previously made by him," the report said.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/16/911.commission/index.html

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"With regards to the weapons inspections, what do you say about the reports that the French were letting Hussein know about what sites were going to be visited by the inspectors and when, so if there was anything at these sites, it could be removed. I dont have a link to the articles on this now, but this all came out right as the war commenced.)"
That was discredited, and the US apologized for that 'supposed leak' and acknowledged it was totally untrue. Beside, if there were WMDs to hide, where are they now? It's not as if they have not be watched from above and within since then... So where are those WMDs?
Do you have a shred of physical evidence that they ever existed? As compared to the REAL evidence that G W Bush was looking to attack Iraq from the beginning and that the justification was widly exaggerated and misleading.
This is the propaganda tactic of the Conservatives. Here are two sites that explain the case.
July 3--"THE CONSERVATIVE WAR ON THE TRUTH" http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/
"Closing of the Presidential Mind" tells about the dismissial of experts and relying only upon like minded individuals. http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?pt=BbMEUfpmlzBDZWCV4Imv7o%3D%3D
The conservatives take aim at the media http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/9049444.htm
Why bother having a discussion when the other has closed their mind to any information other than what they already believe? Any support you offer, they reject. Expert opinion is always suspect.
The Bush Administration knew Saddam had longstanding, direct, and continuing ties to a number of terrorist groups, including groups responsible for killing Americans. The Bush Administration also knew that Iraq was harboring a terrorist network headed by Zarqawi, for example. Zarqawi is the senior al-Qaeda associate who was known to be in Baghdad in May 2002 for medical treatment.
"We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with...September 11th." (President Bush, September 17, 2003)
"This administration never said that the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated between Saddam and al-Qaeda. We did say there were numerous contacts between Saddam Hussein's government and al-Qaeda. For example, Iraqi intelligence officers met with bin Laden, the head of al-Qaeda, in the Sudan. There's numerous contacts between the two." (President Bush, June 17, 2004)
"I must say I have trouble understanding the flack over this. The vice president it saying, I think, that there were connections between al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein's government. We don't disagree with that. ... The sharp differences that the press has drawn, the media has drawn, are not that apparent to me." (9-11 Commission Vice Chairman Lee Hamilton, June 17, 2004)
"I don't think there's any doubt that there were some contacts between Saddam Hussein's government and al-Qaeda, Osama bin Laden's people" (9-11 Commission Vice Chairman Lee Hamilton, June 16, 2004)
"We have solid reporting of senior level contacts between Iraq and al-Qa'ida going back a decade. Since Operation Enduring Freedom, we have solid evidence of the presence in Iraq of al-Qa'ida members, including some that have been in Baghdad." (CIA Director George Tenet, October 7, 2002)
"Yes, there were contacts between Iraq and al-Qaeda, a number of them. They were definately there." (9-11 Commission Chairman Thomas Kean, June 16, 2004)
"Bin Laden also explored possible cooperation with Iraq during his time in Sudan...A senior Iraqi intelligence officer reportedly made three visits to Sudan, finally meeting with Bin Laden in 1994." (9-11 Commission Staff Statement 15, June 16, 2004)
"We know a great deal about Saddam's terrorist activity. We know that he tried to assassinate President George H.W. Bush. We know that he pays Hamas terrorists $25,000 for suicide bombings. We know that he has extreme animus against the United States." (Dr. Condoleezza Rice, Sept. 8, 2002)
"Iraq's increasing support to extremist Palestinians, coupled with the growing indications of a relationship with al-Qa'ida, suggest that Baghdad's links to terrorists will increase, even absent US military action." (CIA Director George Tenet, October 7, 2002)
The Abu Nidal Organization, formerly headquartered in Baghdad, has been responsible for terrorist attacks in 20 countries that killed or injured 900 people, including 12 Americans. Abu Nidal and his organization were in Baghdad until Nidal's death in August 2002.
"Iraqi's Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz has said President Saddam Hussein will grant $US25000 in cash to the families of each Palestinian killed in clashes with Israeli troops in the West Bank and Gaza." ("Hussein Vows Cash for Martrys", Reuters, March 13, 2002)
Saddam Hussein was a threat that had to be dealt with. September 11th was just the tip of the iceberg and was a wake up call for Americans.
and it is knd of odd that the state department had no idea about this.
"State Department spokesman Adam Ereli told reporters he did not know anything about the information that Putin said Russia passed on. No such information was communicated from Russia through the State Department, he said."
what is even more interesting is that Putin
"Putin's remarks were all the more unusual since Russia had diplomatic relations with Saddam's Iraq and sided with France and Germany in opposing the invasion"
"Bush, speaking in Washington on Thursday, strenuously asserted there was a link between Saddam and al Qaeda even though the independent September 11 commission reported, a day before, that there was no such evidence of collaboration.
Intelligence reports of a link between Saddam and al Qaeda were part of Bush's rationale for the invasion of Iraq where more than 830 US soldiers have died after 14 months of violence."
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/06/21/001.html
>>>Obviously if Saddam had been allowed to remain in power he would have posed a danger to the United States.<<
there are many people in power that pose a real danger to us, hussein however was a contained tyrant who did not have the means to get a plane up in the air, let alone have an army sent out to attack us. The premise of the war was not what he could have done, it was based on the premise that we were in imminent danger and that he colluded with osama bin laden in a horrific attack sept 11th.
I don't really care what happens to hussein, he deserves what he gets, but his capture has not made one difference to the war on terror, in fact terrorism is worse now that it was prior to attacking Iraq. To date we still haven't caught the monster who was really responsible for sept 11th and he still poses a real and continued threat to us.
Commission: We have same information as Cheney
Tuesday, July 6, 2004 Posted: 8:31 PM EDT (0031 GMT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Disputing anew an assertion by the Bush administration, the independent commission investigating the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, released a statement Tuesday indicating that it stands by its conclusion that al Qaeda and Iraq had only limited connections.
"After examining available transcripts of public remarks, the 9/11 commission believes it has access to the same information the vice president has seen regarding contacts between al Qaeda and Iraq prior to the 9/11 attacks," the commission said in a written statement.
That statement comes in the wake of an interview Cheney gave last month on CNBC. During that interview, Cheney said "we don't know" whether Iraq was involved in the attacks. Asked whether he had information the panel did not, the vice president said, "Probably."
After Cheney's statement on CNBC, the commission asked the vice president to come forward with any additional information he could provide about any ties between al Qaeda and Iraq.
One Cheney aide who spoke on condition of anonymity dismissed Tuesday's commission statement, calling it a "nonstory."
The commission has said it has seen no evidence to suggest that then-Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein's government was involved in the attacks, which killed nearly 3,000 people.
In a report released last month, the commission concluded that though there were numerous contacts in the 1990s between Iraq and al Qaeda, those contacts did not result in a "collaborative relationship."
Last month, Cheney accused news outlets of distorting the commission's findings to portray them as contradicting statements that administration officials made in the months before the invasion of Iraq.
Alleged ties between Iraq and al Qaeda were a main reason the administration gave for going to war.
Cheney also said recently that the United States has never been able to "knock down" an uncorroborated Czech report that September 11 plot leader Mohamed Atta met with an Iraqi intelligence agent in Prague, Czech Republic, before the attacks.
The commission said it doesn't believe such a meeting ever took place.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/06/cheney.911/index.html
Cheney also said recently that the United States has never been able to "knock down" an uncorroborated Czech report that September 11 plot leader Mohamed Atta met with an Iraqi intelligence agent in Prague, Czech Republic, before the attacks.
There's an article, somewhere on the board, that states Atta was in Florida at & around that date he was surposedly in Prague.
Edit: Just found it, duh, was your post #1 in this thread.
"The panel also dismissed reports that Atta met with an Iraqi intelligence officer in the Czech Republic on April 9, 2000. "We do not believe that such a meeting occurred."
The report said that Atta was in Virginia on April 4 -- evidenced by video that shows him withdrawing $8,000 from an ATM -- and he was in Florida by April 11 if not before."
Edited 7/7/2004 9:20 am ET ET by cl-libraone
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32309-2004Jul6.html
Cheney either doesn't read reports or is stubbornly sticking to his tale.
Thanks for the additional info.
"records show calls were made from the hijacker's cell phone in Florida on April 6, 9, 10 and 11."
OT Can't wait for the VP debates.... Cheney appears to be a polar
I don't know how many people know about the case by the family of John O'Neill, but below is a paste of an overview of some info.
Sidenote, this board sure has become incredibly one-sided!
~~~
In 1995, O'Neill was put in charge of the investigation into the 1993 WTC bombing, which pointed to Iraqi involvement. His team captured Ramzi Yousef, the al-Qaeda operative who was directly responsible for the attack. He also investigated the al-Qaeda attacks in Dar-es-Salaam (Tanzania) and Nairobi (Kenya) in 1998, and on the USS Cole in 2000. His aggressive attitude towards catching terrorists clashed with the limited access the Yemenis gave him to the Cole bombing suspects. Rather than upset the Yemenis, Ambassador Barbara Bodine had him barred from the country, the first time such a thing had ever been done.
O'Neill quit the FBI soon after that, when an investigation began over a briefcase containing sensitive files that disappeared from his hotel room... only to mysteriously reappear in another hotel ninety minutes later, untouched. He became the head of Security at the World Trade Center in July 2001, and was at his desk on 9/11 when the planes hit. After getting out of the building and reporting to a command post, he re-entered Tower 2 to help others escape, and was killed when it collapsed.
The Clinton administration always insisted that al-Qaeda was a new type of terrorist group, one with no ties to any countries. John O'Neill knew that this was impossible. His investigation of the Cole attack, for instance, turned up evidence that a rogue state was involved, probably Iraq. The explosive used in the bombing was only used in the US, Israel, and "two Arab countries." The sophisticated device used in the attack also pointed to state involvement. Vincent Cannistraro, former CIA counter-terrorism chief, stated in October 2000 that Iraq had been wanting to carry out terrorist attacks, and that the Iraqi military had been in contact with Osama bin Laden. The "mainstream" media's studied ignorance of statements like these is baffling.
John O'Neill's personal files from his years of traveling around the world investigating al-Qaeda are now being used as evidence in a lawsuit. His family is suing Saddam Hussein and the Nation of Iraq for his death. The evidence includes documents unearthed in the headquarters of the Mukhabarat (Iraq's intelligence service) and information gleaned from the interrogation of both al-Qaeda and Iraqi prisoners. The purpose of the suit, coordinated by the Washington Center for Peace and Justice, is to prove that Saddam Hussein was a silent partner in al-Qaeda's terror attacks against the US; that he harbored and trained al-Qaeda terrorists. For instance, the lawsuit states that two of bin Laden's senior military commanders, Muhammed abu-Islam and Abdullah Qassim, visited Baghdad in April and May 1998 to meet with Qusay Hussein, Saddam's younger (and slightly saner) son. It also claims that Ayman al-Zawahri, bin Laden's top deputy, met with Iraqi officials including then-Vice President Taha Yassin Ramadan. Documents recovered in Iraq also show, the lawsuit further states, that three al-Jazeera employees were acting as messengers between Osama and Saddam. "We can substantiate through witnesses and documents all the allegations," WCPJ attorney Joshua Ambush stated. The crux of the matter is that the 9/11 hijackers were very likely trained at Salman Pak, Saddam's terrorist training camp just south of Baghdad. Sabah Khodada, a former Iraqi army captain who worked at the camp, gave an interview to the New York Times and PBS on 14 October 2001 in which he made this claim. Khodada said, "I assure you, this operation was conducted by people who were trained by Saddam." Is it any wonder that the Bush administration looked to Iraq for answers about 9/11, when the media was full of stories about the connection between Iraq and al-Qaeda?
The O'Neill case is not the only legal action being taken against states that have sponsored and supported terrorism on behalf of 9/11 victims. In May 2003, Judge Harold Baer of the Southern District Court of New York ruled that plaintiffs had presented enough evidence to be awarded $104 million in a lawsuit against the State of Iraq, among others. Over 2,000 lawsuits have been filed against the governments of Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Sudan.
The O'Neill lawsuit will be the keystone case, however. Not only does this particular suit have more damning and thorough documentation (having been lodged after the fall of Baghdad and the recovery of the Mukhabarat files), but much of the investigative work was done by O'Neill himself before his death. The victim, in this case, will be the architect of the prosecution.
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