Farenheit 9/11 put in perspective

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-26-2003
Farenheit 9/11 put in perspective
78
Mon, 06-28-2004 - 9:59am
Its a frickin film! You know...just like Armogeddon, The Day After Tomorrow, and Bowling For Columbine? No need to crap a farking brick over it. Its amazing how some people can get so worked up over another person's opinion. Its even more amazing that some people take HOLLYWOOD CREATIONS as truths! Yeah, I saw it. I laughed because I know that the film is skewed far left but he does make very good points. After I got out of the theater, two guys got into a brawl over it in the parking lot....over...a...frickin...MOVIE. And you wonder why some people have less and less faith in the American people? We're acting like morons over the most trivial stuff. No need to yell at other people to get out of the country, no need to proclaim the word of Michael Moore as truth. If you're so deadset on what you believe, then you can watch the film as entertainment and acknowledge its existence, right? Why do you get so offended by it? It always amuses me how people generally have the opinion of "Yeah I believe in freedom of speech as long as it conforms with what I believe in." In the words of my mother, "GROW UP!"

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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-02-2004
Mon, 06-28-2004 - 2:52pm
>>> The people can't handle the truth. Too many far leftists and far rightist that would probably cause chaos if the truth was told to them.<<

then why are you critisizing some for saying the right can't handle the truth, you just said it yourself (yes I know you added that both sides can't handle it).


>>>I have to admit I don't know jackshiat about the Bin Ladin family other than they produced a son who was in the CIA and then became a terrorist.<<<

then how can you critisize what moore stated about the bin ladens and their connections to business interests in this country?

"Bakr bin Laden and 11 relatives now make up the board of the business, which is called the Saudi Binladin Group. Its headquarters are in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.

Its reach: Now an international conglomerate, the family business has 50,000 employees worldwide and annual revenues estimated at $5-billion. Its enterprises include construction, engineering, telecommunications, book publishing and manufacturing that ranges from motor vehicle parts to crystal chandeliers. Its business partners include General Electric, Nortel, Snapple beverages, Motorola and CitiBank."

http://www.sptimes.com/News/092301/Worldandnation/The_bin_Laden_busines.shtml

they also had financial ties to with the Carlyle Group ( private investment firm and in the top ten of defence contractors), known for its connections to influential Washington political figures. Bush senior was Senior Advisor to the Carlyle Asia Advisory Board and retired oct 2003.

Moore was not lying about the carlyle group or who its connections were or how they connect to the bin laden family and the Bush family? How strong those connections were and how much they influenced decisions in the white house are debatable,but moore isn't making conclusions in his film or telling us that, he is asked questions and wondering about it.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 06-28-2004 - 3:20pm
Just to make sure you know where I stand when it comes to MM, allow me to c&p my post from another board.

Djie

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-26-2003
Mon, 06-28-2004 - 3:37pm
<>

I'm criticizing those people for believing that a hollywood production is truth. Don't take my words out of context. You tend to do that a lot.



I said nothing about that. Care to show me what I said? Perhaps I just have amnesia.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-02-2004
Mon, 06-28-2004 - 3:44pm
>>>I didn't see F9/11 and after seeing BfC (did you?) and some of his tv programmes (did you?), I have no intention of wasting my money doing so.<<

yes I saw his movies, but then I go to see a lot of movies and watch quite a few programmes, some by people whose opinion I don't agree with at all. For you it is a waste, but for me it is about exploring another persons viewpoint even if I don't totally agree with or agree with it at all.


>>>When a documentary contains blatant lies (there was no bowling-ally-thingy involved),<<<

Acutally there are witness accounts that the boys did bowl that morning. james concilio gave a statement to the jefferson police department in which he states he saw both boys bowling that morning. macauly the bowling teacher also gave a statement that the boys bowled that morning.

>>>half truths/half the picture (neglecting to mention that Osama was disowned by his family)<<

He was publicly disowned by the family, but there is no evidence to prove that his family stopped having relationships with some of his siblings is there?

>>>He said he doesn't want to make a political statement....<<

where did he state that? Of course he is making a political statement, most people are smart enough to know he is biased, just as fox news is, and limbaugh is.


>>>MM seems to believe he has some PRIVALIGE, a RIGHT to be distributed, and he feels wronged by anyone who doesn't want to distribute his work<<

All artists feel wronged when a company reneges on its contract and disney reneged on its contract? I don't see that as an issue. Mel gibson faced the same problem and thankfully he was able to get his work out just as moore, whether we like it isn't even an issue. They both have a right to find ways to get their work out to the public.


>>>>Is Disney somehow "morally obliged" to distribute any film which portée they can't support/back up?<<

No but they are legally obligated to follow through on a contract and frankly I find it strange that they even agreed in the first place, it isn't like the guys at disney don't know what moore is about.


>>>What is keeping MM from making say (hé sure can afford it, or can take a bank-loan out on it) a thousand dvd/vhs copies and distribute them in e.g. the B-circuit (striking a fine deal) like many do?<<

I guess he didn't need to because someone stepped up to the plate, which isn't much different than what happened to mel gibson for his movie.


>>>Just my "expressing artistic vision" on MM and you bét it's political too!! :)<<

you prefectly entilted to your opinion, I can't say I like mm on a personal level but he sure is artisitically capable of making people talk about the issues that concern him, just like gibson got people to talk about issues close to his heart.

alfreda




Edited 6/28/2004 4:00 pm ET ET by alfreda_iv

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-02-2004
Mon, 06-28-2004 - 3:51pm
>>>I'm criticizing those people for believing that a hollywood production is truth. Don't take my words out of context. You tend to do that a lot<<

No I am not, you stated that people can't handle the truth which is the same claim that some made against the right. Moore's film may be a hollywood production but it contains some facts and truths that some people can't seem to accept, such as the bin laden family being able to get permission to fly within the united states on the 13th.

>>>said nothing about that. Care to show me what I said?<<

so far you have stated that moores film is filled with inaccuracies and skewed facts, but you really haven't pointed out inaccuracies. All you pointed out is that it seemed he showed the senators as being vain and selfish, but that in fact is not true since one senator proved not to be so at all and the other senator just looked confused and didn't have time to answer moore's question. since you know little about the bin laden family interests it would be difficult for you to claim moore was inaccurate in that regard.


iVillage Member
Registered: 04-26-2003
Mon, 06-28-2004 - 3:53pm
< For you it is a waste, but for me it is about exploring another persons viewpoint even if I don't totally agree with or agree with it at all.>

I commend you for that, a lot of people don't take the liberty to do so.



People also do something called lie. Show us proof and then this statement will hold water.



Not until someone makes a reality show called The Life of the Bin Ladins. But I'm sure there's evidence out there somewhere...someone knows and they have simply chosen not to reveal it.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-05-2003
Mon, 06-28-2004 - 3:56pm

A couple points:


1.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-26-2003
Mon, 06-28-2004 - 4:00pm


Except whatever "truth" i'm referring to is held between government officials and private families like the bin ladin family. It is not skewed by an extreme leftist hollywood director. YOu can't make a comparison like that. I haven't read a single post that states that the bin ladin family flying out on the 13th is false. I'd like you to provide evidence before you make that accusation.



What you said was:



I have said nothing in regard to moore's interest in the bin ladin family. Again, you misread what I have written. How is it a fact that its not true that moore was trying to prove that the senators were not vain and selfish? Did you gather that by yourself? If you did, wouldn't that be your opinion and not a fact?

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-02-2004
Mon, 06-28-2004 - 4:42pm
>>>People also do something called lie. Show us proof and then this statement will hold water.<<

are you saying that the bowling teacher, and a student lied about seeing tbe boys bowl that morning?

jefferson county da office witness statment #JCSO#99-7625 control #3426

Kristine macauley control fbi 174a-dn-57419#2087

http://columbine-research.info/p6201-6300.pdf

I will leave it up to you to spend the time to look it up, I have to buzz and finish some work. Not sure why a teacher in this case would lie, or that another student would corroborate it though.

till another day

alfreda

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-28-2004
Mon, 06-28-2004 - 5:16pm
<>

Michael Moore calls it an "op-ed" piece. Clearly he has arranged the facts to reflect his opinion (a tactic he probably picked up from the Bush White House, cherry picking intelligence evidence, etc) however, the main points of his argument - the close relationship btw Bushes and Saudis, the dirty election politics, the trumped-up case for war - are, as the New York Times notes, *all born out by the public record* Translation, TRUE

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