Thoughts on Farenheit 911...(m)

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thoughts on Farenheit 911...(m)
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Tue, 07-06-2004 - 10:58am
From those who actually SAW it...This is my critique from the Politics board.

Just got back from the theater....A very good documentary or what ever you want to consider it. I laughed ALOT which actually in itself is kind of sad. I also cried a little. Did I walk away angry? maybe a little. What did I learn that I didn't know before? The extent of the Bush family and their ties to the Bin Ladens and Saudi Arabia. If we don't question this as citizens of this country then we live with the consequences. If what Michael Moore says is untrue than why don't they sue him??? I have heard nothing from them at all. After seeing this movie I was surprised that the best argument that I have seen that this movie is made up is the part about the senator and his son being in the military. With so much to work with and that is the BIG LIE you all come up with??? Have I missed something while being on vacation??? To many funny parts to go into but one of my favorites was the scene with Ashcroft running aganist the Dead Guy in Missouri and losing. As a proud Missourian I can tell you that was sooooo true and everyone in the theater clapped at that part. But do not fear Republicans I think the hype is pretty much over, the theater was half empty. Also I will add that Michael Moore did not let the

democrats off easy either. He made it perfectly clear that they took it up the back side on the 2000 election. I understand that their hands were tied with what happened in Florida and this country could not afford to be without a Government while they fought the injustices that were done but it still painful to watch. For anyone reading this who is still not sure who to vote for, go see this movie and when you walk out think about why the Bush family is not defending themselves aganist this so call "Fictional" movie.

Let me ad that I am NOT a Michael Moore fan and have never seen his work before. The fact is that News Footage does not lie, paper trails don't lie the actual words spoken by this President don't lie...Any time the Bush family wants to discredit what was said.....I'll be waiting....


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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2003
Wed, 07-07-2004 - 2:40pm
I have nothing against people who support the war per se. There are a few good arguments for it (well actually one....Saddam being a total cruel tyrant...like many, who should have had his just desserts some time ago....like many of those in power now....like many currently supported by the US and other western governments). If these people supporting the war can put forth a good case with actual facts I respect their right to feel as they do. The senator had a personal stake in it....to support his son and what he stands for.

Personally, I don't feel that it was worth the price (nor do a great many parents and soldiers fighting it now) and I don't think it will accomplish the aims that this administration publically said it was going to accomplish and this is based on my personal opionion and painstaking research that I have done (as well as an understanding of the history and thought processes of people from the Middle East).

It's the ones who don't have a clue, who blindly support this action and administration without knowing what the he** they are talking about that get my blood boiling. If people bothered to do their homework. Who read information with an open mind and came to conclusions (for whatever side) from a position of knowledge I could respect that. For others (from both sides) who don't do that....well, I have very little use for them or for their opinions. Unfortunately these people vote and Michael Moore is counting on that in mnaking this film just like the administration was counting on that when making their (in many parts bogus) arguments to go to war. Just like the Democrats are counting on that when making their stand (or lack thereof). This goes much deeper than partisan politics. It is very frustrating.

Democracy is both well and good and is the best form of government but IMO, it is wasted on a bunch of apathetic uninformed yahoos who don't take responsibility for having this sacred and wonderful right.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-02-2004
Wed, 07-07-2004 - 2:54pm
>>>Personally, I don't feel that it was worth the price (nor do a great many parents and soldiers fighting it now) and I don't think it will accomplish the aims that this administration publically said it was going to accomplish and this is based on my personal opionion and painstaking research that I have done (as well as an understanding of the history and thought processes of people from the Middle East).<<

totally agree, was trying to keep some of the political debate out of it, which is kind of hard to do, especially when exploring the issues of this movie. I really just wanted to respond to the issue of that one scene being weak,but the core reasoning behind it I understood.

alfie

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2003
Wed, 07-07-2004 - 3:10pm
<>

I think this was something that Moore was trying to raise as well when he included that clip from the Brittany Spears interview. To outline how airheaded a great many people are getting and how bogus their political stance is based on a position of utter ignorance. With the way society is going, I don't think a great many people are deserving of living in a democracy. Democracy comes with a sacred responsibility that people are not taking seriously enough. Democracy comes with accountability and that accountabilty does not rest soley on the shoulders of those in power but on the shoulders of those who put them in power.

There was another thread on one of these boards (I don't remember which one) where they were disucssing the fact that some people compared Bush to Hitler. That is a low blow and not accurate. I didn't take the time to respond to something I was thinking but I thin this might be the place to make that point. It won't be pretty and it will get a lot of people up in arms but here goes

*deep breath....putting on my flame retardant suit*

The one parallel I can see with Hitler (or more correctly Germany in the run up to WW2) is the people of Germany who blindly allowed Hitler to do what he did and who bought into his line of racist bullsh*t.

For the life of me I couldn't understand the German people. Here was an advanced country that was affluent and the people well educated but still they allowed this to happen. The parallels to this and to what was going on in America in the run up to the Iraq war with all this rah rah rah, rallying around the flag stuff (on ALL sides....being Canadian I suppose I was outside looking in) filled me with a feeling of sick dread and the parallels to Hitler's Germany and this gave me an understanding of how it could have happened and how it could possibly happen again in a civilized and for the most part, highly moral society.

Food for thought.



iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2003
Wed, 07-07-2004 - 3:26pm
I agree there were a number of weak scenes but on the whole I think it was great because it got people thinking and discussing and hopefully, researching. It was a biased movie and that is fine. It should be an opportunity to let people take responsibility to find out if all of its claims were indeed true. I mean there are too many disturbing "coincidences" in the movie to dismiss them as mere coincidences. People don't want to see this movie because it might "shatter their faith" because that is what faith is....a leap of logic. Perhaps it works for someone's religion but for their politics, I think it has absolutely NO place whatsoever.

I find it sad that there are those that will never "stoop" to seeing this movie. Mainly a lot of the people that should join into the discussion. This also goes for those who go and see the movie and this is their only way of informing themselves and they swallow absolutely everything in it hook line and sinker.

I mean come ON people! This is an election year and a lot is at stake. Regerster to vot and go and vote from a position of knowledge. There are people in other countries who would DIE for this right.

:o)






Edited 7/7/2004 3:43 pm ET ET by suemox

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-18-2000
Thu, 07-08-2004 - 9:01am

>"I couldn't understand the German people. Here was an advanced country that was affluent"<


Not really. After the Great Depression there was runaway inflation. I read somewhere, that it took a wheel barrow of paper currency to buy a loaf of bread.


Just found a site that has the info..............


"Had it not been for the economic collapse that began with the Wall Street stock market crash of October 1929, Hitler probably would not have come to power. The Great Depression hit Germany hard because the German economy's well-being depended on short-term loans from the United States. Once these loans were recalled, Germany was devastated. Unemployment went from 8.5 percent in 1929 to 14 percent in 1930, to 21.9 percent in 1931, and, at its peak, to 29.9 percent in 1932. Compounding the effects of the Depression were the drastic economic measures taken by Center Party politician Heinrich Bruening, who served as chancellor from March 1930 until the end of May 1932. Bruening's budget cuts were designed to cause so much misery that the Allies would excuse Germany from making any further reparations payments. In this at least, Bruening succeeded. United States president Herbert Hoover declared a "reparations moratorium" in 1932. In the meantime, the Depression deepened, and social discontent intensified to the point that Germany seemed on the verge of civil war.


In times of desperation, voters are ready for extreme solutions, and the NSDAP exploited the situation. Skilled Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels launched an intensive media campaign that ceaselessly expounded a few simple notions until even the dullest voter knew Hitler's basic program. The party's program was broad and general enough to appeal to many unemployed people, farmers, white-collar workers, members of the middle class who had been hurt by the Depression or had lost status since the end of World War I, and young people eager to dedicate themselves to nationalist ideals. If voters were not drawn to some aspects of the party platform, they might agree with others. Like other right-wing groups, the party blamed the Treaty of Versailles and reparations for the developing crisis. Nazi propaganda attacked the Weimar political system, the "November criminals," Marxists, internationalists, and Jews. Besides promising a solution to the economic crisis, the NSDAP offered the German people a sense of national pride and the promise of restored order.


Three elections--in September 1930, in July 1932, and in November 1932--were held between the onset of the Depression and Hitler's appointment as chancellor in January 1933. The vote shares of the SPD and the Center Party fluctuated somewhat yet remained much as they had been in 1928, when the SPD held a large plurality of 153 seats in the Reichstag and the Center Party held sixty-one, third after the DNVP's seventy-three seats. The shares of the parties of the extreme left and extreme right, the KPD and the NSDAP, respectively, increased dramatically in this period, KPD holdings almost doubling from fifty-four in 1928 to 100 in November 1932. The NSDAP's success was even greater. Beginning with twelve seats in 1928, the Nazis increased their delegation seats nearly tenfold, to 107 seats in 1930. They doubled their holdings to 230 in the summer of 1932. This made the NSDAP the largest party in the Reichstag, far surpassing the SPD with its 133 seats. The gains of the NSDAP came at the expense of the other right-wing parties."


Complete article.........


 


Photobucket&nbs

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2003
Thu, 07-08-2004 - 9:53am
<>

The public is suppose to believe what their told. There is no need for them to know what's really going on; that's why so many messengers are personally attacked. They should learn to be loyal Americans. (Sarcasm intended) I personally resent the paternalism!

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2003
Thu, 07-08-2004 - 10:02am
<>

A very touching story, thanks for sharing. That feeling of shared sacrifice is very warming, and seems to be missing from today's atmosphere. We have lost a vital part of the American identity; Canada still maintains compassion. How could a "religious" country become so self-absorbed?

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2003
Thu, 07-08-2004 - 10:14am
<>

No flames from me. We gradually yield our willingness to think and reason because to follow is easier. Once the first few steps are taken it becomes harder to reverse the course. I posted a peace on fascism previously, hoping to call attention to how easily we are drifting toward this political position. Paternalism is only a few steps from fascism.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2003
Thu, 07-08-2004 - 10:28am
<>

ITA. People have devoutly followed Bush, and they can't afford to accept the fact that there are no WMD, the US was never at risk from Iraq. They cling to the link between OBL and Saddam because this is what they believed, and to have to admit you were misled is too painful. Better to insist your faith was bestowed correctly.

Faith is belief in the absence of proof. No logic is needed; this is another one of my criticisms of America today, too many lack the ability to reason. They simply accept on the basis of faith, e.g., I have faith in the man's ability to do the right thing. As you quoted from MM <> He is right on.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2003
Thu, 07-08-2004 - 10:33am
<>

So, 9/11 created a desperate situation, which GWB could grab and exploit?

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