Russian hostage crisis ended

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2003
Russian hostage crisis ended
46
Fri, 09-03-2004 - 8:42am
I have just learned -- not so much thanks to our US news mind you, but the internet about the bloody end to the hostage situation. www.bbc.com has a very thorough article and a time line and some amazingly sad pictures.

My prayers and positive thoughts all go to the people who are suffering in this crisis today. It's heart breaking. Devastating. Why would people hurt children? What's it worth?

I don't understand this world. All I can do is pray for peace and for the health of the families who have suffered today. And for those who have died -- which for now are few. Praying hard no one else dies.

Kelly

Avatar for independentgrrrl
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 09-04-2004 - 11:04am
<<¿Comprende?>>

Apparently, only a select few people on this board have any reading comprehension skills while those who questioned the original poster (me being one of them--I merely needed clarification) don't.

Of course, it doesn't occur to THEM that THEY could be the ones with communication problems.

Sheesh!

Avatar for tmcgoughy
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Sat, 09-04-2004 - 8:55pm

"I read your response and found it lacking. While you did not absolve the terrorist from fault you placed fault, at least partially, for the deaths on Putin and the Russian army."


Weren't some of these people killed by

The first key to wisdom is constant and frequent questioning, for by doubting we are led to question and by questioning we arrive at the truth.  -
Avatar for tmcgoughy
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Sat, 09-04-2004 - 8:59pm

These people are VICTIMS -- not of their government, but of militant Islamists bent on destroying decency in this world.


Please read my post again.

The first key to wisdom is constant and frequent questioning, for by doubting we are led to question and by questioning we arrive at the truth.  -
Avatar for tmcgoughy
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Sat, 09-04-2004 - 9:01pm

"Comprehend that while Tmcgoughy can speculate all she wants it doesn’t change the fact that her post laid the ground work for blaming at least some injuries and deaths on Putin."


What was that saying that Truman had on his desk..."the buck stops here"

The first key to wisdom is constant and frequent questioning, for by doubting we are led to question and by questioning we arrive at the truth.  -
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-18-2004
Sat, 09-04-2004 - 9:53pm
"I believe in individual responsibility and no particular circumstance absolves anyone of their ultimate culpability in the events that took place. "

While some hostages may have died by Russian hands the "ultimate culpability" lies squarely with the terrorists.

"How would I have handled it? First, I would recognize, appreciate, and plan for the threat that these people pose to me and my country. The old adage, "know your enemy" comes to mind. "

Great you now know that a group of radical terrorist hell bent on your death are in your country and will take any oppurtunity they can to cause terror. I'm feeling safer.


"Second, I would have learned from the fiasco of the hostage situation at the theater and implemented any necessary changes in an effort to prevent this from happening in the future"

This says a whole bunch of nothing. You can not prevent this from happening in the future. You can't know what is happening at every public place, how many people are in each building at every second of every day. There is but one way to "prevent" his from happening...declare martial law and remove all personal freedom...than shoot or arrest anything that moves. I've given you one solution...got a better one?

"Third, soldiers and people who responded to these types of incidents would be trained on how to handle these things while minimizing casualties."

Yea I guess the way to minimize in this situation was to just watch the escaping children be gunned down. Could you do that?

"Fourth, I would have invested in a few sharpshooters. From what I have read, the terrorists were shooting at the fleeing hostages from atop a building making them open targets."

Great...so you shoot the people shooting at the children...the remaining terrorist denonate their bombs and shoot the hostages. Good plan. You have the same result.

"Fifth, I would have negotiators that are available at a moments notice."

How do you negotiate with terrorists who have unreasonable demands and don't care about their lives or yours? Tell you what...you find a negogiator that fixes that problem and I got a stong gargoyle on a building top I would like to see talked down.

So in the end your plan has achieved the following. You've talked to them, shot them and then watched them kill the remainder of the hostages. Good plan...sounds like Putin's.

"There were mistakes made here that the enormity and horror of the crises do not mitigate. "

Well perhaps things could have been handled differently. Perhaps another outcome was possible. Hindsight is 20/20. The sole blame I will say again is with the terrorists. The Russians can learn, plan, train for every possibility but they can't stop them.

"The events of 9/11 were something that our country had never experienced before and few people had ever imagined that something like that could or would ever happen. "

Really? Local terrorism was foreign to us? The WTC had been bombed before. Planes have been hijacked and we could have learned from them. Do we lay blame on the American people for not preparing for the possibilities? Of course not. You blame the terrorists. You can try and prevent it from occurring again but if it does, we and the Russians would remain blameless.

The Terrorists are ultimately and completely culpable for every SINGLE death.

No hindsight second guessing will change that.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-02-2004
Sat, 09-04-2004 - 9:58pm
Am I missing something or the news,I am not hearing any official statements from the state department or from this administration offering sympathy to the Russians or support for Putin, nor from Blair? Anybody got any links? I am not finding them on international news either.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Sat, 09-04-2004 - 10:00pm
So now that our nation has been through 9/11 and other smaller scale attacks, do you think our schools were ready on September 1 for this kind of attack? What do you think our country or any other country would do differently?

I don't think anyone has really had the realization that this would ever occur. How could anyone fathom the possiblility that such evil exists? How can we comprehend the mindset that allows killing children and babies in such a way?

I have to agree that the sole responsibility lies with the terrorists and not with the government. We will always have vulnerabilties in free societies. That is, after all, what Russia is now that the Soviet Union has fallen. I think they may have been safer before. Terrorists will take advantage of our freedoms and use them to their advantage.

I agree that Putin is too proud and should take advantage of help when offered, but I don't think this particular situation could have been much better. It is hard to say how much longer the children inside could have even lasted with no food and water.

I just want to add my prayers for these families of the victims. I pray that they will learn to live again and that the children will learn to be children again and that they will never have to endure anything like this again.

Jeanette

Avatar for tmcgoughy
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Sat, 09-04-2004 - 10:10pm

Well perhaps things could have been handled differently. Perhaps another outcome was possible. Hindsight is 20/20. The sole blame I will say again is with the terrorists. The Russians can learn, plan, train for every possibility but they can't stop them.


This is obviously a point on which we disagree.

The first key to wisdom is constant and frequent questioning, for by doubting we are led to question and by questioning we arrive at the truth.  -
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-18-2004
Sun, 09-05-2004 - 9:46am
"You have chosen to selectively interpret what I have written to suit your predetermined beliefs. This is not a matter of preventing anything from happening. "

You mentioned preventing it in the first place. I contend you can never prevent it. You can deter it, you can even stop a few select events. However if a terrorist wanted to, they could do the same thing here in our country. I guarantee you the terrorist could pull off the same attack as on 9/11 today if they wanted to. No government could realistically stop it. You know why they would likely fail? The passengers not the gov't would stop them.

Freedom prevents prevention of terrorism. It is one cost of our freedom.

"This is not hindsight or second guessing on my part. From the moment I heard about this situation, I knew this is how it was going to end. Past behavior is a pretty good predicator of future behavior. "

Well we should all be so lucky as to have your "oracle" type vision. Nostradamus is calling.

Avatar for tmcgoughy
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Sun, 09-05-2004 - 6:19pm
"You mentioned preventing it in the first place."



This is my exact statement. Please notice the emphasis on the word effort. Very selective reading indeed.



"Second, I would have learned from the fiasco of the hostage situation at the theater and implemented any necessary changes in an effort to prevent this from happening in the future"



"You can deter it, you can even stop a few select events. However if a terrorist wanted to, they could do the same thing here in our country. I guarantee you the terrorist could pull off the same attack as on 9/11 today if they wanted to. No government could realistically stop it."



In essence I agree with this statement. My argument has never been that terrorist attacks can be prevented entirely but that when they do happen, the people who are supposed to respond to them should be properly trained so that they are able to handle the situation in the most effective way.



"Well we should all be so lucky as to have your "oracle" type vision. Nostradamus is calling."



I'm not clairvoyant. Just perceptive.

The first key to wisdom is constant and frequent questioning, for by doubting we are led to question and by questioning we arrive at the truth.  -