AZ moves to allow concealed guns in bars
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| Sun, 06-28-2009 - 2:12pm |
Arizona moves to allow concealed guns in bars
By AMANDA LEE MYERS
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER
PHOENIX -- There was a time in the Wild West that cowboys had to check their guns before they could pull up a bar stool for a drink - rules that protected against the saloon gunfights that came to define the frontier era in places like Arizona.
But a bill moving through the Arizona Legislature has some bar owners fearful that the state is turning back the clock to the Old West. Lawmakers are considering a bill that would allow anyone with a concealed-weapons permit to bring a handgun into bars and restaurants serving alcohol.
The bill gives bars discretion to keep gun-toting patrons out, and anyone with a weapon would not be allowed to drink. But the bill has angered bar owners who believe booze and guns are a recipe for disaster. (me: At least the bar owners will have the discretion to still ban guns in their premises...but 'anyone with a weapon should not be allowed to drink'? How in the h*ll are they going to enforce that? Have the waiter/waitress/bartender pat down &/or search the purses/bags of the patrons who order drinks?)
"This might be one of the stupidest things that I have heard of," said Mike Nelson, who owns Pomeroy's bar in Phoenix and plans to post a sign on his front door outlawing guns in his bar as soon as possible. "Can you think of a single reason guns and alcohol should be intertwined?" (me: Not a single one! I hope more bar/restaurant owners outlaw guns in their establishments. It looks like the only way common sense will prevail.)
The bill is part of a nationwide push by the National Rifle Association. Georgia passed a similar law in 2008, as did Tennessee earlier this year in becoming the 40th state to allow bar or restaurant patrons to carry guns. (me: Ah yes...the good ole boys of the NRA...it figures.)
The law would only apply to people with concealed-weapons permits because lawmakers say that type of gun owner has to pass a background check and take an eight-hour course to get their permits, and are therefore safer. More than 127,000 Arizonans have concealed-weapons permits, according to the Arizona Department of Public Safety. (me: Of course!!! CWP's NEVER lose their temper; NEVER develop drinking/drug problems; etc. I will say that I feel anyone owning a gun should be required the same courses.)
Arizonans are also allowed to openly carry guns - on a belt or holster, for example. But those people would still not be allowed in bars or restaurants serving alcohol if they're armed.
The bill has been approved by the Senate and is now before the House; Republican Gov. Jan Brewer would still have to OK it.
Peagler, a gun owner himself, said people with concealed-weapons permits aren't people to be concerned about. (me: Again...see above. While they may be LESS likely, there is absolutely NO insurance that they won't snap, etc. That is the stupidest comment I've heard in awhile.)
"People who carry concealed weapons for the most part are your general law-abiding citizens, and the people who are going to break the law are going to do it no matter what laws we have out there," he said. "If somebody has been drinking and they have a weapon in the car, they're just going to go out and get it." (me: I agree that if someone is bent on breaking the law, they will. However, if they have to go somewhere else to get that gun, maybe...just maybe...they might cool down enough to stop & think about it. Especially if they are one of those 'perfect CWP owners'.)
Frank Murray, owner of Seamus McCaffrey's Irish Pub & Restaurant in downtown Phoenix, said he opposes the law and will prohibit his customers from coming in armed.
"It's kind of like the Wild West days," he said. "We've got enough nuts out on the street walking around with guns. We don't need them in places with alcohol and families."
In May, the House overwhelmingly approved a bill that would permit gun owners to keep a weapon out of sight in a locked vehicle in a parking lot or garage. That would override employers that ban weapons on their property. (me: So now employers can't even control this? Seems like an infringement on their rights!)
Last week, a Senate committee approved a bill that would allow Arizonans to carry concealed weapons without state permits, despite objections from law enforcement. (me: Well, cross Arizona off my list of places to see.)
Entire article at: http://www.seattlepi.com/national/1110ap_us_guns_in_bars.html








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***I have always been troubled by laws that hold bartenders or hosts responsible for the behavior of people who have been drinking.****
You can be troubled by them, but it doesen't change server liability laws. They suck and put an unfair burden on servers.
The problem with that is some people have CCW permits but don't always carry. If AZ were to do this, how would you expect a CCW holder to prove that they werent carrying? They may very well go into a bar or restaraunt and order a drink but then get refused because their license says they have a CCW even though they aren't carrying. How do you propose that a CCW holder proves that they are not carrying?
Plus, releasing the information that is on those strips is a direct violation of Arizona law.
A bartender doesn't need access to ANY of that information other than what is listed on the front of the license.
No.
Here is the exact wording from the bill:
"Specifies that an on-sale retailer who does not post a sign prohibiting weapons is not liable in damages to any person who is injured or to the survivors of any person killed or for property damage which is alleged to have been caused by another’s actions involving a handgun on the on-sale retailer’s licensed premises unless the on-sale retailer is grossly negligent or acts willfully and maliciously with intent to harm."
site... http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/1r/summary/s.1113jud_aspassed.doc.htm
There
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martinisnsushi - the two most important food groups!
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martinisnsushi - the two most important food groups!
Specifies that an on-sale retailer who does not post a sign prohibiting weapons is not liable in damages to any person who is injured or to the survivors of any person killed or for property damage which is alleged to have been caused by another’s actions involving a handgun on the on-sale retailer’s licensed premises unless the on-sale retailer is grossly negligent or acts willfully and maliciously with intent to harm."
The first time I read this, I was just curious what that meant (just the part in bold italics)
And I didn't know that about Texas law.
The law in AZ does specify that you can't drink and carry. However, its worth noting that in the states that don't go as far, and simply forbid carrying while intoxicated, thre are remarkably few (if any) incidents of CCW holders mis-using their weapons.
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martinisnsushi - the two most important food groups!
If they are going to be held liable for serving that individual, they most certainly should have access to such information!
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