Did you see "Fahrenheit 911" ?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2004
Did you see "Fahrenheit 911" ?
522
Tue, 06-29-2004 - 1:31pm

Did you see "Fahrenheit 911" ?



  • No
  • No, but I plan to
  • Yes


You will be able to change your vote.


 

The last time anyone listened to a Bush, they were lost for 40 years!   Looks like we're doomed to "wander" ano

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Avatar for tmcgoughy
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Thu, 09-23-2004 - 9:21am

I even read an article that said McCain was appealing to a judge on his behalf.

The first key to wisdom is constant and frequent questioning, for by doubting we are led to question and by questioning we arrive at the truth.  -
Avatar for tmcgoughy
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Thu, 09-23-2004 - 9:23am

I am glad to hear this news.

The first key to wisdom is constant and frequent questioning, for by doubting we are led to question and by questioning we arrive at the truth.  -
Avatar for schifferle
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Thu, 09-23-2004 - 9:39am
May '04-

An artillery shell loaded with sarin gas near the Baghdad airport was discovered. "Only" about a gallon. Four liters will kill 60,000 people. Saddam failed to mention having this to the UN and later it fell into the hands of terrorists. Incompetent ones, fortunately, because it failed to go off properly.



then...June '04-

More than a dozen chemical weapons shells in Iraq were found in Iraq with enough Sarin & Mustard gas to kill over 100,000 people.

So there are still WMD in Iraq with the strong likelihood that much had been moved into Syria prior to the US invasion. Definitely moved into Syria if one believes Nizar Nayuf.

We knew Saddam used chemical weapons on the Kerds. Then the UN failed to enforce 12 years of sanctions against Hussein. And why wasn't Saddam complying if he had nothing to hide???

Avatar for tmcgoughy
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Thu, 09-23-2004 - 9:56am

No, I would think that Nader's votes would go to Nader.

The first key to wisdom is constant and frequent questioning, for by doubting we are led to question and by questioning we arrive at the truth.  -
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2004
Thu, 09-23-2004 - 10:02am
Syria!

 

The last time anyone listened to a Bush, they were lost for 40 years!   Looks like we're doomed to "wander" ano

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-21-2004
Thu, 09-23-2004 - 10:18am

More than a dozen chemical weapons shells


I think shells are just shells aren't they?


If SH had already destroyed the weapons how could he produce them? How do you prove a negative? Inspectors were allowed in the Palaces even and found nothing.

Donna

"Patriotism means to stand by the Country. It does not mean to stand by the President." -- Theodore Roosevelt.

Donna
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2003
Thu, 09-23-2004 - 10:29am
Warheads found in Iraq not chemical weapons, military says

BAGHDAD (AFP) Jul 02, 2004

http://www.spacewar.com/2004/040702181116.ctvlrxgf.html

Multinational forces in Iraq said on Friday that more than a dozen missile warheads said to contain mustard gas or sarin have tested negative for chemical agents.

Washington had announced the find by Polish troops on Thursday, which was later confirmed by Warsaw.

The head of Poland's military intelligence service also said on Friday that "terrorist" groups were seeking to acquire the weapons.

But the 122mm warheads, found in late June, have been found not to contain the deadly chemicals, a statement from multinational forces here said.

"Those 16 rounds were all empty and tested negative for any type of chemicals," it said.

Two other warheads found in mid-June were found to contain an insignificant amount of sarin gas. The armaments were left over from the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980s, the statement said.

"Due to the deteriorated state of the rounds and small quantity of remaining agent, these rounds were determined to have limited to no impact if used by insurgents against coalition forces."

Washington justified leading the invasion of Iraq in March 2003 by claiming the country was harbouring weapons of mass destruction. However, none has yet been found.

•••

Tests on Iraqi Shells Find No Chemical Agent

Wednesday, January 14, 2004

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,108390,00.html


COPENHAGEN, Denmark  — Mortar shells found in southern Iraq by the Danish military do not appear to contain chemical weapon agents as originally suspected, Fox News has learned.

After a 16-man team from the Iraqi Survey Group (search) was sent to the scene to examine the mortar shells, tests of five of them yielded no traces of chemical agent, a Danish military official told Fox on Wednesday.

Initial testing by the Danes and the British indicated that the set of 36 shells possibly contained blister gas, a type of chemical weapon agent.

One shell was to be brought back to Baghdad for further testing, Fox News learned, and an electronic assessment of the shells was to be sent to a U.S. lab for further analysis.

Both the Danish and U.S. officials told Fox that the latest negative finding wasn't conclusive and said a more final assessment could come in the next three to five days.

The news came just as a U.S.-led team started a series of tests Tuesday to determine whether the liquid blister agent was in the cluster of mortar shells.


Fourteen members of the ISG, made up of intelligence analysts, interrogators and translators, were testing the 120mm shells with a mobile laboratory at the Iraqi site over the next few days, Maj. Kim Gruenberger of the Danish Army Operational Command (search) told The Associated Press.

The U.S. military believes the shells are remnants from the 1980-1988 war between Iraq and neighboring Iran.

"They have been working since this morning," said Gruenberger, who spoke from the Danish army's command center in Karup, 165 miles northwest of Copenhagen.

Danish troops and Icelandic de-miners uncovered the shells Friday after receiving tips from local residents near Qurnah, north of the city of Basra, where Denmark's 410 soldiers are based.

Preliminary tests on the plastic-wrapped but damaged shells showed they contained a liquid blister agent. But initial tests by field troops are designed to favor a positive reading, erring on the side of caution to protect soldiers. More sophisticated tests are often necessary.

Some Iraqis have told Danish soldiers that other mortar shells were buried in the area, including a stockpile dumped in the Tigris River that could contain as many as 400 rounds, Gruenberger said.

Danish engineers will start investigating those sites after they are done with the present case, he said.

In October, Dutch marines found several dozen artillery shells dating to the 1991 Gulf War in southern Iraq, but the shells contained no biological or chemical agents. In April, U.S. troops found a dozen 55-gallon drums in northern Iraq. Preliminary tests found possible evidence of a nerve agent and a blister agent, but later tests found the contents were not chemical weapons.

Before launching the war on March 20, the United States asserted Iraq still had stockpiles of mustard gas, a World War I-era blister agent that is stored in liquid form. The chemical burns skin, eyes and lungs.

U.S. intelligence officials also claimed Iraq had sarin (search), cyclosarin (search) and VX (search), which are extremely deadly nerve agents.

During the war, potential chemical and biological findings were sent to a U.S. government laboratory in Fort Detrick, Md., and to a British government laboratory in Portendown, Britain. In some cases, a third set was sent to the United Nations' chemical weapons watchdog agency in The Hague, Netherlands. All the tests came back negative.

Since the war ended, the U.S.-led coalition has found several caches that tested positive for mustard gas but later turned out to contain missile fuel or other chemicals.

Other discoveries early in the U.S.-led occupation turned out to be old caches that already had been tagged by U.N. inspectors and were scheduled for destruction.

•••••

From a Coalition Provisional Authority Briefing, May 17, 2004

            Q     (Through interpreter.)  Baram Hamid Ali (sp) from al- Mashada (sp). General Kimmitt, can you explain to us where did you find the artillery round which contains the sarin nerve gas?  And how much is the area affected by this bomb?

 

            GEN. KIMMITT:  Yeah, it was found in Baghdad.  The area that was affected was very minor.

 

            Because the binary chemicals were not allowed to mix, there were very, very small traces, and the EOD people that went up showed some minor indications of nerve poisoning.  However, it was so minor that the doctors already have these people released.  So it is not a continuing threat, and the area needs no special marking-off, nor does it -- nor did it need additional decontamination.

 

            MR. SENOR:  Dexter?

 

            Q     Just along the same -- on the same lines, on the sarin, you said before it was partially detonated.  I wonder what exactly does   that mean.  And is there -- when a binary weapon goes off, is it -- is the effect of it different if it's fired an artillery shell, or if it sort of exploded an IED?  And I'm just wondering if -- I mean, does this change your conclusions about -- I mean, does the discovery of sarin change your conclusions about whether Saddam had weapons of mass destruction?

 

            GEN. KIMMITT:  On the last question, I'll leave that up to the Iraqi Survey Group to determine.

 

            This was rigged as an IED.  If it was a normal artillery round, it would have been very effective.  It would have had the same effect as we saw today against the current president of the IGC, because those were artillery rounds daisy-chained together, and you saw the effect that that would have.

 

            Q     (Off mike.)

 

            GEN. KIMMITT:  No.  Completely separate.  It would have exploded. It would have exploded -- if it was a normal artillery round being used as an IED, you would have the kind of effect that you would see down near the Green Zone today.  But because it was a chemical round, you don't have explosives inside the projectile; you have chemicals.

 

            What makes binary weapons relatively safe for handling on a day- to-day basis is because they're in separate chambers, they can be handled without significant risk towards the persons handling them. That was one of the reasons you went with binary chemicals, because you have two fairly passive chemicals not mixed.  But it takes the launching of the artillery round itself before the chambers break, causing them to mix, so that it becomes dangerous on the far end. That doesn't happen when you have an IED.  When you have an IED, or you rig it as an IED, it just blows up and you have the chemicals spewing out -- minor amounts going in different directions.

 

            Q     So it's less effective, then.  I mean --

 

            GEN. KIMMITT:  It's ineffective.

 

            Q     It's ineffective --

 

            GEN. KIMMITT:  Virtually ineffective as a chemical weapon with the exception of the small trace that was found as they went up and detected it.

 

            Q     And it just -- the when and where, if you could be more precise.

 

            GEN. KIMMITT:  No.  Again, in Baghdad a couple days ago.

 

            MR. SENOR:   Yeah?

 

            Q     General Kimmitt, just a follow-up.  Am I reading you right that whoever rigged this chemical round as an IED appears to not have known that it was a chemical round?

 

            GEN. KIMMITT:  Right.  Exactly.

 

   ��        Q     Okay.  Now, if one were to know that they had a chemical round and rigged it as an IED, is there a way to make it effective the way we know sarin can be effective?

 

            GEN. KIMMITT:  No, not really.  You would have to put it in an artillery cannon, get the projectile, get the propellent, sort of go through the old mechanism of having an artillery round to do it.

 

            Q     Is there a way to remove the nerve agent from the round, and if so, what is the quantity?

 

            GEN. KIMMITT:  Again, you're going well beyond my expertise on this and -- so I don't know.

 

            MR. SENOR:  Yes?

 

            Q     Evan Osnos, Chicago Tribune.  If this is the first evidence or sign of a chemical munition in Baghdad, is there something -- a more broader guidance or advisory that you were planning to put out to the Iraqi people that perhaps there may be chemical munitions now floating around?

 

            And also, does this change your posture in terms of looking for those sorts of weapons from an investigative posture, going back and looking at what Saddam may have been doing, to, in fact, a public security posture?

 

            GEN. KIMMITT:  Again, these are -- inside the round it's very hard.  You can't sort of break this thing open and take these items and mix them together.  You can take common household chemicals, mix them together and have somewhat the same effect.  But to suggest that you've got two different chemicals laying about and putting them together makes sarin -- inside that artillery round they're probably safer than common household chemicals because of the integrity of that round, but these kind of questions I would defer to the Iraqi Survey Group to give you a full explanation on them.

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2004/tr20040517-0761.html

Avatar for schifferle
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Thu, 09-23-2004 - 11:30am
"More than a dozen chemical weapons shells..."

<>

The rest of the sentence states "...WITH enough Sarin & Mustard gas to kill over 100,000 people."

<>

US Forces found them.

<>

Maybe yes, maybe no after he killed Iranians & Kurds! IF they were destroyed and these chemical weapons were found only a few months ago, HOW did they "mysteriously" get there? And there is very good reason to believe most WMD were transported to Syria prior to the US invasion.



Avatar for schifferle
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Thu, 09-23-2004 - 11:47am
<< GEN. KIMMITT: Virtually ineffective as a chemical weapon with the exception of the small trace that was found as they went up and detected it.>>

One gallon of sarin, in liquid form, is NOT a small trace. That can kill over 60,000 people.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-09-2003
Thu, 09-23-2004 - 11:59am
Thanks Mifskie! :-)

"Without music, life is a journey through the desert"...

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