Bush Records of Service Were Destroyed

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Registered: 03-25-2003
Bush Records of Service Were Destroyed
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Fri, 07-09-2004 - 9:51am
“HOUSTON, July 8 - Military records that could help establish President Bush's whereabouts during his disputed service in the Texas Air National Guard more than 30 years ago have been inadvertently destroyed, according to the Pentagon.” ...

Pentagon Says Bush Records of Service Were Destroyed

By RALPH BLUMENTHAL

July 9, 2004

HOUSTON, July 8 - Military records that could help establish President Bush's whereabouts during his disputed service in the Texas Air National Guard more than 30 years ago have been inadvertently destroyed, according to the Pentagon.

It said the payroll records of "numerous service members," including former First Lt. Bush, had been ruined in 1996 and 1997 by the Defense Finance and Accounting Service during a project to salvage deteriorating microfilm. No back-up paper copies could be found, it added in notices dated June 25.

The destroyed records cover three months of a period in 1972 and 1973 when Mr. Bush's claims of service in Alabama are in question.

The disclosure appeared to catch some experts, both pro-Bush and con, by surprise. Even the retired lieutenant colonel who studied Mr. Bush's records for the White House, Albert C. Lloyd of Austin, said it came as news to him.

The loss was announced by the Defense Department's Office of Freedom of Information and Security Review in letters to The New York Times and other news organizations that for nearly half a year have sought Mr. Bush's complete service file under the open-records law.

There was no mention of the loss, for example, when White House officials released hundreds of pages of the President's military records last February in an effort to stem Democratic accusations that he was "AWOL" for a time during his commitment to fly at home in the Air National Guard during the Vietnam War.

Dan Bartlett, the White House communications director who has said that the released records confirmed the president's fulfillment of his National Guard commitment, did not return two calls for a response.

The disclosure that the payroll records had been destroyed came in a letter signed by C. Y. Talbott, chief of the Pentagon's Freedom of Information Office, who forwarded a CD-Rom of hundreds of records that Mr. Bush has previously released, along with images of punch-card records. Sixty pages of Mr. Bush's medical file and some other records were excluded on privacy grounds, Mr. Talbott wrote.

He said in the letter that he could not provide complete payroll records, explaining, "The Defense Finance and Accounting Service (DFAS) has advised of the inadvertent destruction of microfilm containing certain National Guard payroll records."

He went on: "In 1996 and 1997, DFAS engaged with limited success in a project to salvage deteriorating microfilm. During this process the microfilm payroll records of numerous service members were damaged, including from the first quarter of 1969 (Jan. 1 to March 31) and the third quarter of 1972 (July 1 to Sept. 30). President Bush's payroll records for these two quarters were among the records destroyed. Searches for backup paper copies of the missing records were unsuccessful."

Mr. Talbott's office would not respond to questions, saying that further information could be provided only through another Freedom of Information application.

But Bryan Hubbard, a spokesman for Defense finance agency in Denver, said the destruction occurred as the office was trying to unspool 2,000-foot rolls of fragile microfilm. Mr. Hubbard said he did not know how many records were lost or why the loss had not been announced before.

For Mr. Bush, the 1969 period when he was training to be a pilot, is not in dispute. But in May 1972, he moved to Alabama to work on a political campaign and, he has said, to perform his Guard service there for a year. But other Guard officers have said they had no recollection of ever seeing him there. The most evidence the White House has been able to find are records showing Mr. Bush was paid for six days in October and November 1972, without saying where, and the record of a dental exam at a Montgomery, Ala., air base on Jan. 6, 1973.

On June 22, The Associated Press filed suit in federal court in New York against the Pentagon and the Air Force to gain access to all the president's military records.

The lost payroll records stored in Denver might have answered some questions about whether he fulfilled his legal commitment, critics who have written about the subject said in interviews.

"Those are records we've all been interested in," said James Moore, author of a recent book, "Bush's War for Re-election," which takes a critical view of Mr. Bush's service record. "I think it's curious that the microfiche could resolve what days Mr. Bush worked and what days he was paid, and suddenly that is gone."

But Mr. Moore said the president could still authorize the release of other withheld records that would shed light on his service record.

Among the issues still disputed is why, according to released records, Mr. Bush was suspended from flying on Aug. 1, 1972. The reason cited in the records is "failure to accomplish annual medical examination."

Mr. Bartlett, the White House spokesman, said in February that Mr. Bush felt he did not need to take the physical as he was no longer flying planes in Alabama. Mr. Lloyd, the retired colonel who studied the records, gave a similar explanation in an interview.

But Mr. Lloyd said he was surprised to be told of the destruction of the pay records that might have resolved some questions.

http://nytimes.com/2004/07/09/politics/campaign/09records.html

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-23-2004
Fri, 07-09-2004 - 9:56pm


Right. It's not laughable to suggest that Bush while Governor of Texas and not even a candidate for president (in fact at that point I think all the talk was about Jeb Bush being the next logical candidate, not W.) decided to infiltrate the Pentagon and destroy some microfilm. Guess he couldn't do it while his father was commander in chief, he decided to wait until Clinton was. That's apparently a credible theory, but to suggest that Bill Clinton might do something dishonest and self-serving is laughable?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2003
Fri, 07-09-2004 - 10:29pm
Questions regarding George W. Bush's military service were first raised in 1994 when he ran for his first term as Governor of Texas. He was reelected in '98. Here's an excerpt from an article by the reporter who raised the question at a debate in 1993:

"Ever since asking Bush that question almost a decade ago, I have been obsessed with finding the truth. Inadvertently, I may have done him a favor. A source within the Texas National Guard told me that the day after I had posed the question that Bush people were calling the guard’s offices and contacting the future president’s roommates and commanders to get the story straight. Clearly, the subject left them both angry and exposed. After the debate broadcast had concluded, Bush advisor Karen Hughes came up to me wanting to know why I asked such a question. “It just seemed so irrelevant, Jim. What was the point? I think it was absurd. What does that have to do with governing Texas?” She was energetic, animated, and angry."

Speaking of the more recent flap:

"Mr. Bush has authorized only the release of his records from Texas National Guard files. And his Military Personnel Records Jacket from Texas is missing many things. There should be pay stubs for every day served, a roll-up of total retirement points earned for service, and, most likely, an Officers' Board of Inquiry Report on why a pilot, who had spent $1 million dollars learning to fly a jet in war time, was suspended. These records, if they exist, have been committed to microfiche and are on file at the Air Reserve Personnel Headquarters in Denver. And, regardless of the president's parsing of language, he has no yet authorized the release to the public of his full service record from Denver."

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/02/con04058.html


The microfilm was destroyed by the Defense Finance and Accounting Service, in Denver.

From today's Times:

"The Defense Finance and Accounting Service (DFAS) has advised of the inadvertent destruction of microfilm containing certain National Guard payroll records."

...

"Mr. Talbott's office would not respond to questions, saying that further information could be provided only through another Freedom of Information application.

But Bryan Hubbard, a spokesman for Defense finance agency in Denver, said the destruction occurred as the office was trying to unspool 2,000-foot rolls of fragile microfilm. Mr. Hubbard said he did not know how many records were lost or why the loss had not been announced before"

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-24-2003
Fri, 07-09-2004 - 11:23pm
It's just one more sneaky thing from the Republican Party.
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-01-2004
Fri, 07-09-2004 - 11:39pm
If this is the best the democrats can come up with to deface the president than more power to them. I am sickened that I live in a country where there are just enough idiots to put John Kerry in the White House. The thing that makes me so frustrated is that one day I will have to live in a socialistic society because so many people are too stupid to understand that the constitution of the United States of America was created to keep the government from having TOO much power. John Kerry is a socialist in disguise. Anyone who wants to make medical care a government responsibility has a socialistic mindset. If people would just look at their European History books they would see that socialist societies NEVER survive! Ask any German or Frenchman why they live in the US. Ask the French and their wonderful socialized medicine why so many people died last summer from the heat. People, start reading and remember that history will repeat itself. We can learn a lot from history. John Kerry is bad news and if you think you're bad off now, it's only going to get worse if you put that wealthy, pin-stripe-suited hippie in office!
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Registered: 04-18-2004
Sat, 07-10-2004 - 4:42am

Hello Bradensmomma2003!


Welcome to the board!

Miffy - Co-CL For The Politics Today Board

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2003
Sat, 07-10-2004 - 8:20am
<>

Yeah. The stupid socialist doctors forgot to write prescriptions for air conditioners.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-24-2003
Sat, 07-10-2004 - 10:36am
>>The thing that makes me so frustrated is that one day I will have to live in a socialistic society because so many people are too stupid to understand that the constitution of the United States of America was created to keep the government from having TOO much power.<<

Please explain why a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage is in keeping with this philosophy. Or a ban on choice.

I'm sickened by the campaign... the president 4 years ago claimed he was a "uniter." Now every other sentence is "the senator from Massachusetts," obviously to play on Massachusetts as not a true part of this country. Last I knew a president can come from any of the 50 states, and wonder how it would play out if we painted Texas in derogatory ways. This is hurtful, and there is no positive to it except to get elected. Yet once elected, he is responsible for Massachusetts. Stop insulting the state, Mr. Bush.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2003
Sat, 07-10-2004 - 12:08pm
I think Bush also repeats the phrase "the Senator from Massachusetts" over and over in order to tie Kerry in voters minds to the other Senator from Massachusetts, Ted Kennedy.
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Registered: 06-17-2004
Sat, 07-10-2004 - 7:40pm

Welcome to the board bradensmomma!


When you get the chance, please stop by this thread and introduce yourself.


http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-elpoliticsto&msg=3360.1&ctx=0


Renee ~~~




Edited 7/10/2004 8:49 pm ET ET by cl-wrhen

Renee ~~~

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Registered: 06-17-2004
Sat, 07-10-2004 - 8:12pm

It was the already stressed medical system which basically went on vacation so that

Renee ~~~