THEY Can'ts HANDLE the Truth!

Avatar for mrsed4
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-22-2003
THEY Can'ts HANDLE the Truth!
54
Thu, 07-15-2004 - 9:30pm
Fla. Lawmaker Says 2000 Election 'Stolen'

By ALAN FRAM, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Think the passions from the 2000 presidential election have cooled? Certainly not in the House, which voted Thursday to strike a Florida representative's words from the record after she said Republicans "stole" that closely fought contest.

The verbal battle broke out after Rep. Steve Buyer, R-Ind., proposed a measure barring any federal official from requesting that the United Nations (news - web sites) formally observe the U.S. elections on Nov. 2.

Rep. Corrine Brown, D-Fla., and several other House Democrats have made that suggestion. They argue that some black voters were disenfranchised in 2000 and problems could occur again this fall.

"We welcome America to observe the integrity of our electoral process and we do not ask, though, for the United Nations to come as monitors at our polling stations," Buyer said.

"I come from Florida, where you and others participated in what I call the United States coup d'etat. We need to make sure it doesn't happen again," Brown said. "Over and over again after the election when you stole the election, you came back here and said, 'Get over it.' No, we're not going to get over it. And we want verification from the world."

At that point, Buyer demanded that Brown's words be "taken down," or removed the debate's permanent record.

The House's presiding officer, Rep. Mac Thornberry, R-Texas, ruled that Brown's words violated a House rule.

"Members should not accuse other members of committing a crime such as, quote, stealing, end quote, an election," Thornberry said.

When Brown objected to his ruling, the House voted 219-187 to strike her words.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=512&u=/ap/20040716/ap_on_go_co/house_florida_fight_1&printer=1

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iVillage Member
Registered: 02-23-2004
Thu, 07-15-2004 - 10:13pm


You're right-the Democrats certainly CAN'T handle the truth-the votes were recounted several times by independant organizations and Bush came out the winner every time, yet some Dems still make blatantly false statements like Rep. Browns's.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-15-2004
Fri, 07-16-2004 - 12:20am
Wow what can I say but I agree.
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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 07-16-2004 - 6:37am
I agree 100%. But you know what? It is no longer 2000. We are on to them. They try that stuff this time and they will be out of luck! Funny how they only state in hot contention was the one where his brother was governor. I hope they have people watching to make sure the machines are not hacked with a bunch of extra votes for Bush. I know they are going to have many teams there observing so if they try to send people home on false pretenses we will know. We were successful in getting them to drop that felons list when it was determined that MANY people on their list had served many, many years ago and had had their voter's right given back. THey showed one man on the news that had been eligible to vote for like 10 years. ANyway, he has been voting over that 10 year period and he gets a letter saying that he can't vote in November. Yeah...Jeb and others claim it was because they were trying to combine some other list. Whatever. Even my uncle (a staunch Republican due to military affliations) sent me an email joking saying, "Go Jeb Go! Steal some more votes! Go! Go! Go! Hahahahaha". So even though he was thrilled with the outcome he knew it was unfair. Oh and don't get me wrong. The recount process was unfair too. I don't know how the different counties could think that they could all use different processes to count the votes. There should have been one standardized set way for the whole state to do recounts. I'm not sure how it should have been resolved. However, I do not think the answer was to stop recounting and hand the election to Bush. ANYWAY, that is all water under the bridge. By doing that the Republicans in Florida managed to inflame the democratic party BIG TIME. We are united like we have never been before. Voters (especially African Americans) will go out in droves and that is not good news for GWB.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-03-2003
Fri, 07-16-2004 - 8:38am
Mrs. Brown wouldn't acknowledge the truth if it crawled up and bit her on the ankle. The truth of the matter is that all the legally cast, valid ballots were counted... several times in fact. The results of those recounts showed that Bush won, by an incredibly narrow margin, but won nonetheless.

Nobody "stole" anything, that's just the ranting mantra of those who can't accept the facts of the matter and can't move on.


~mark~

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2004
Fri, 07-16-2004 - 10:39am
The comment is a molehill being made into a mountain in my view, but it is probably best removed from the record. The disenfranchised voters could have easily tipped the election, but it's long over now and can't be changed.

The important election is the one in the future.

Glassy

Avatar for mrsed4
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-22-2003
Fri, 07-16-2004 - 12:32pm
That was Ms. Brown's and the others' opinion: we need to make sure this doesn't happen again.

I have seen interviews (and I have a BBC documentary video on my computer but don't know how I could post it here) where people have found that although they voted for Gore, their vote was actually cast for Buchanan. It goes on to show how the whole process (including and especially the recount) was manipulated by the Republicans, one step at a time.

The only point the Dems are trying to make is that with an independent observation team, the fairness of this next election can be assured.

That's all we want, a fair election. If we can make sure El Salvador gets one, don't we have the right to expect one too?

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-03-2003
Fri, 07-16-2004 - 5:08pm
What a colossal crock... "I have seen interviews (and I have a BBC documentary video on my computer but don't know how I could post it here) where people have found that although they voted for Gore, their vote was actually cast for Buchanan. It goes on to show how the whole process (including and especially the recount) was manipulated by the Republicans, one step at a time."

So you're claiming that those ballot screwups on the butterfly ballot were due to Republican "manipulation"? Sorry, wrong. Those were due solely to voter idiocy and an admittedly poorly designed ballot (designed by a Democrat, if that matters), not Republicans.

As for the recounts, they were done as best as possible under the circumstances, those circumstances being a largely ignored state law, myriad different criteria by counties, and a Constitutionally-mandated set of election deadlines.

If you want to be taken seriously on this, try being a little more objective and a little less partisanly paranoid. This wasn't a "Republican conspiracy", it was a circus, largely the fault of long-established Florida laws and a bunch of counties which evidently didn't even know what Florida law had to say on the matter. What state law said, BTW, was that unless the chad was completely removed (not dimpled, not hanging, not pregnant or any other silliness) it wasn't a valid vote. So the different criteria used by respective counties shouldn't have been an issue in the first place. It only became that way with the endless recounts and the efforts of Gore & Co. to make sure "every vote counts", even those not validly cast according to state law.


~mark~

Avatar for papparic
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Fri, 07-16-2004 - 5:46pm
A crock? Really? Do you have any opinion on the 57,700 names removed from the Florida voting lists? Would you care to check the laws of your own state regarding the rights of former internees to vote? Correct me if I'm wrong but anyone who has done time has fulfilled their obligation to the state and are returned all their former rights.

The question of UN supervision of the next Florida election goes much deeper than a poorly designed ballot or questionable hole punching. Need to brush up on your facts? Read "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" by Greg Palast.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-16-2004
Fri, 07-16-2004 - 5:57pm
I have read your responces and I am completely amazed that I actually read from more than one contributor that ALL the votes were counted, SEVERAL TIMES! Were you people alive in 2000? Do you own a Televison? Anybody who followed the events following the 2000 election can tell you that the decision was made by Katherine Harris and the conservitive supreme court to GIVE the state to ol' GWB. It didn't hurt that Harris was both the chief of elections in Florida and GWB's campaign manager in the state. Those of you who simply say what ever you want to be true are falling right into the same trap as the current administration. Just say whatever suits you, truth or not, as long as it moves your agenda along. Oh yea, Osama and Sadam were best friends!! They went to club med together!! Al Queda and Iraq, whats the difference? We counted all the votes!! This parade of B.S. would almost be funny if is wasn't causeing a global tragedy. I'm in the Army, I have been to Iraq, we didn't need to be there. It has become the front for the war on terror? Well, in a way that is the only true part of this mess. We certainly have created more terror in Iraq than anywhere else.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-03-2003
Fri, 07-16-2004 - 6:40pm
"A crock? Really? Do you have any opinion on the 57,700 names removed from the Florida voting lists?"

Yes, I do. I feel the lists should have been vetted with more care. I also feel that it's the responsibility of individual voters to be sure shortly before an election that they are properly registered to vote, just in case things of this nature happen. But I don't see that this was a conspiracy, Republican or otherwise.

Nor, BTW, does that issue relate to "people have found that although they voted for Gore, their vote was actually cast for Buchanan." which was the only specific issue you mentioned in the post I responded to.

"Would you care to check the laws of your own state regarding the rights of former internees to vote?"

Each state is free to set their own laws in regards to felons having their right to vote restored.

"Correct me if I'm wrong but anyone who has done time has fulfilled their obligation to the state and are returned all their former rights."

You're wrong. Convicted felons, even after serving their allotted time in prison, still don't automatically have all their rights restored. For instance, they (unless they directly petition the government for it) don't have the right to purchase or possess firearms... they still can't run for public office (federal and some states), and in many states they aren't allowed to vote.

"The question of UN supervision of the next Florida election goes much deeper than a poorly designed ballot or questionable hole punching. Need to brush up on your facts? Read "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" by Greg Palast."

UN supervision? It's none of the UN's business. As for Palast's "facts", I haven't read the book so I'm unaware of just what he's presenting as "fact". If it's merely a list of partisan rhetoric of all the ways Bush "stole" the 2000 election, it's not worth the time or effort.

~mark~

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