"Free" health care!

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-01-2003
"Free" health care!
250
Thu, 07-22-2004 - 7:15pm
I wonder how many of you have had to live without health insurance? You say that health care is not a right? NO WONDER! You have always had a place for the bills to go other then your mailbox! How many of you have ever asked what the actual cost of your prescriptions are? Do the math! Do you have any idea what it is like to call around from doctor to doctor trying to find one who would see you WITHOUT insurance? Have you ever stood at your doctor office and humbly asked for samples instead of a prescription because u know that your $360 check wont stretch enough to cover your $280 med bill AND the doctor appt. Don't even mention medicaid! If you make enough money to buy food and scrape by...you do not qualify.

Go ahead and be technical but if you ever run into some bad luck you will see things in an entirely different light!

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Wed, 07-28-2004 - 1:31pm
Yes, the GST, and there is another one (It’s been a while since I’ve been to Canada, but I recall 2 hefty sales taxes there).

"Besides, we Canadians pay 10% of our GDP for healthcare, and americans pay 14."

I just posted another thread talking about this. Canada enjoys mandated lower prices for drugs that we in America do not. Canada would not enjoy many of these drugs if it were not for Americans paying the higher drug costs and funding additional research into new drugs. This (in addition to the thread about their military) is another way Canada leans on the US economy, having the US citizens cover the cost of things, but Canada sharing in the benefits. (Hmmm, with many of my more recent posts people are going to think I’m anti-Canada when I’m really not. I actually like them and their country.)

“what I gather, only 11% of americans are happy with the american 'system', which is the LOWEST approval rating of all western countries.”

I’m not ducking this issue, but I’ve deliberately not commented regarding approval ratings of healthcare in various countries. I have not looked into the topic and can not take a position. I’ve read various posts in this thread regarding how happy some are or are not with medical coverage, but just do not know enough myself to feel comfortable commenting.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Wed, 07-28-2004 - 1:44pm
“There would be free choice of health care providers under a single payer universal health care system”

Maybe so in Canada, but not here in the US. Under the plan proposed by Hillary, selecting the doctor one wanted to be treated by was punishable by up to 5 years imprisonment for both the patient and the doctor. The local government had the responsibility to assign a doctor to you. Although one could petition for a specific doctor, your local government had to approve this change before you actually went to see them.


“-Taxes, fees and benefits would be decided by elected officials, thus being democratic.”

Democratic perhaps, but not better. Life, the economy, and medical care are much too complex to be mandated by a bureaucrat. This is why socialism fails when tried on a large scale (you may recall in the 80’s when Russia forgot to order the production of shoelaces one year). How’d you like the same thing to happen with say x-ray machines? Not possible in a capitalistic society. One hospital may mess up, but they all won’t forget something like that. But it can and does happen when centrally controlled in this manner.

Contrary to what many might be implying, we in the US don’t have people falling over in the streets due to a lack of healthcare. We also do have numerous charities, Medicaid, and a number of other fail-safes to help people that can not afford medical treatment get treatment anyway.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Wed, 07-28-2004 - 1:49pm
I was trying to avoid another topic (I posted in another thread the way Canada under funds its’ military and leans on the US’s military thereby saving themselves money). Well, they largely do the same thing with medications. They have legal ceilings on how much drugs can be sold for which makes them appear cheap. While companies can still sell their drugs there and make a profit, those same drugs are usually more than twice as expensive here in the US. The problem is while they get the benefit of these drugs at a lower price and we pay more, we can not do the same thing. If we mandated the same price for drugs that Canada did, there would not be much money left over for companies to research new drugs. This cheaper price for drugs contributes to it looking like they have spend less on healthcare, when they are really getting just as many drugs, they just don’t pay as much.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-18-2004
Wed, 07-28-2004 - 1:53pm

<<(Hmmm, with many of my more recent posts people are going to think I’m anti-Canada when I’m really not. I actually like them and their country.) >>


Too bad that 40% of Canadian teens (and a whopping 64% of French-Canadian) don't like us.

Miffy - Co-CL For The Politics Today Board

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Wed, 07-28-2004 - 1:54pm
“The thing about the Canadian system is that even if you are willing to pay for decent care, you can't; it's illegal. There are no private alternatives that you can turn to.”

That’s a major problem these days. Everyone seems so worried about someone else having something better than what they have. Can someone from Canada explain to me how someone paying for their own medical coverage hurts the rest of Canadians in anyway. These people would be paying for medical care twice. Once through their taxes (which is great since they are paying for medical care through taxes, but not absorbing any of those resources thereby freeing them up for someone else), and again when seeking a private medical practitioner. But in a socialized system this is a crime, talk about draconian.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-16-2004
Wed, 07-28-2004 - 2:15pm
The higher cost of drugs does not end up back in research. It lines the pockets of companies in excess of 'normal profits'. Canadian and american companies that develop those still enjoy healthy profits without the higher price of drugs. We in Canada happen to think that profits can't be made to excess on the backs of sick people. I understand that the US is actually attempting to do the same as Canada. The main problem is that in the US democratic system, lobbies have incredible power over politicians.

From what I gather, some US states are benefiting (financially) from the lower canadian drug prices....

In terms of the US military being 'of benefit' to us, I've also discussed this somewhere else... The last time were attacked on our soil, it was by the US. We don't have too many enemies... We don't believe in the arms buildup, and happen to believe that foreign aid and a JUST foreign policy (still with many flaws mind you) is the best defense. I don't feel protected in any way by the US, in fact I feel we as the closest neighbour could easily become collateral damage if the US gets attacked by the enemies it seems to create over the years. Sorry I know you will disagree, but that is how I feel. I was very scared, and still am very scared because of the US's attack on Iraq, despite the fact that Canada didn't support it. Why? Because there are many in the world who don't really make a distinction between americans and canadians - we're all lumped in the same group.

We should always learn from history. And history tells us loud and clear that a big defense, big military is NOT the best defense. Prevention, as in everything else in life, is key. Just as I think that the best way to reduce crime in the US is to 1) reduce poverty) 2)improve education, including early education 3)Provide universal health/psychiatric help at the very least to children and 4)focus on children protection (abuse, etc..)

I think this applies on the world stage too. Unhappy, crazy, uneducated, frustrated, hungry and sick people attack others/other countries. Happy, educated, sane, satisfied and healthy people don't.

I'm not saying let's take care of all the sick people of the world mind you. But I think the best thing we can do to kick start a 'good cycle' of improvement is to help them help themselves. Don't forget that democracy in western countries is still new - it came at its own pace, by the people themselves. Not every country is on the same schedule. As I said before, there were countries that were ahead of the US of a whole lot of issues.. like slavery, women's vote, to name a few.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-16-2004
Wed, 07-28-2004 - 2:15pm
I've been to the US many times. Many if not most states have sales taxes too!
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-16-2004
Wed, 07-28-2004 - 2:25pm
I'll admit I know nothing about Hillary's plan. But "up here" in Canada, we pick our own doctors, and can change anytime. It isn't 'socialist' in any way. Hospitals that don't do well, or that serve a dwindling population get closed, the better ones get more money. I live in an area where we have many hospitals, including a top-notch children's hospital.

Quality Health care is something we canadians just take for granted - we need it, we get it. No financial concerns about it, unless of course it's purely esthetic. Unlike the US army, we don't get boob jobs for free.... but we can get some somewhat optional surgeries and treatments pretty easily. I had some moles removed by the dermatologist at no charge (they were not pre-malignant or malignant) and my mom had bunion surgery (they weren't that bad). Now for that optional surgery, my mom waited a few months. But that's kind of expected - an orthopedic surgeon certainly would have more important cases than .. bunions (don't you just hate that word?)

;)

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-24-2004
Wed, 07-28-2004 - 2:30pm
It is not only the Canadians that don't like us(just in case there were people who didn't know)it is everyone in general. When my son went to Morocco a few years ago, I went out and bought him another suitcase becuase the one he had was of the American Flag. I just didn't want him to be a walking target ya know? However, he had a wonderful time there! Everyone was really nice and were asking him about everything (have you met Eminem, are you in the mob(Chicago), and other meaningless things).

I think it is not the people that are not liked but the government (everyone's government). People may not agree with the Canadian healthcare, but that is in know way saying they hate Canadians. Actually it was my son who told me this. He said they didnt hate me becuase I was American, but they do not like America. Make sense? It did to me when he told me....

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-16-2004
Wed, 07-28-2004 - 2:31pm
Sorry, but that last statement is incorrect - our government doesn't pay for medications, we do, except for medications provided in-hospital, and in some provinces, provided to segments of the population. I heard program after program on american news saying how the prices charged in Canada are the ones that are fair, and americans saying that that's what should be charged in the US. So clearly, not everyone has the same view. Why not instead fund directly the research, so that you know the money goes to that, instead of going all to the shareholders. In canada, there are lots of grants and tax-benefits to doing research, and many of those drugs you use in the US were created here. And yes, I know lots of drugs were created in the US. And in many other countries...

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