"Free" health care!

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-01-2003
"Free" health care!
250
Thu, 07-22-2004 - 7:15pm
I wonder how many of you have had to live without health insurance? You say that health care is not a right? NO WONDER! You have always had a place for the bills to go other then your mailbox! How many of you have ever asked what the actual cost of your prescriptions are? Do the math! Do you have any idea what it is like to call around from doctor to doctor trying to find one who would see you WITHOUT insurance? Have you ever stood at your doctor office and humbly asked for samples instead of a prescription because u know that your $360 check wont stretch enough to cover your $280 med bill AND the doctor appt. Don't even mention medicaid! If you make enough money to buy food and scrape by...you do not qualify.

Go ahead and be technical but if you ever run into some bad luck you will see things in an entirely different light!

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-24-2004
Thu, 07-29-2004 - 11:28am
No, my son does not follow Islam. I feel he is old enough to decide for himself and besides there is no compulsion in religion (Quran 2:256). However, it is my duty to teach him to be the man I know he can be. He is 18 and if he ever yelled at me as I have seen others do to their parents, I would not hesitate to slap him. If young people do not respect their parents, it is hard for them to respect anyone else. Being a single mother for 14 years, I have learned to be strong and tough with him. I love him so much!!! By the way, my son is half mexican, so he knows how it feels to be discriminated against.

Many Moroccans are very lax when it comes to Islam. Many do not cover, they date, they do all kinds of things; sort of like many Americans being Christian but not doing many Christian things..(not saying anything bad) MOst of the women there tend to follow the French fashions and most want to live in France not America.




I think the same thing, but I think it is hard for a lot of people to see the difference. Americans do the same thing to other countries; tying into the government policies to that of its people. Before the war started many people thought (and some still do) that Iraqis would just go around and kill, which is not true. I have a class I go to at the mosque to study the Quran. The teacher is a woman from the Sudan. At first thought, you would think about what is going on their now in Sudan, and think she would want to go around killing every non-muslim or support it.

A couple of weeks ago we got her into talking about where she used to live. She told us that in her village that every household would put something on a plate or box to give to the poor person. Everyone had to put something on it no matter how big or how small. Because in Islam you have to give to the poor. If someone asked for something, you had to also give them something. When she started teaching the class like 4 years ago, she was afraid of questions and would get sick. In her school if you asked a question during class, it was a sign of disrespect. If something needed to be built, then all would pitch in to help build it and the women would cook to feed everyone.

I only say this becuase does this sound like the machete yielding, killers that we see on the news? No it doesnt. She may be Sudanese, but she is not like what those are depicting. There is a line between America and Americans and they don't mean the same thing. The more I try to explain it, the more it doesn't make sense sorry.

About your emails, if you send them do not send them to my hotmail account but send them to my yahoo account. Everything seems to be going into the junk box anymore, and I just delete everything that goes there. So if they were sent to hotmail, chances are they got deleted.



iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2003
Thu, 07-29-2004 - 11:49am
You raised an incredibly complex issue with this standard of living post. I'm not sure if it's in my capability (and amount of time to research it properly) to address everything and do it justice.

First of all, this is a difficult thing to measure because there is more to it than just measuring the economics of it.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Standard-of-living-in-the-United-States

Also, it's difficult (and perhaps a little unfair) to compare Canada in relation to the US. Like the US, there are variations among regions and provinces but due to the physical realities (large land mass, much of which is non-arable and downright inhospitable for large scale human habitation) along with a fairly small population much of which is clustered along the US border these differences are compounded tenfold. Also, to compare one province (even ones like Ontario and Alberta...the two richest provinces with the most valuable resources) against American states and cities is difficult too when one realizes that there are some American states whose population exceeds that of our entire country and some cities whose populations exceeds that of some entire Canadian provinces.

Besides being twice as old as Canada as a nation, this fairly profound difference is probably responsible in large part to the different attitudes and values of the two countries. Perhaps this is why Canadians place more value on our social programs than those in the USA. We have an attitude that the richer areas must somehow help to support the poorer ones....not because the people there are lazy or freeloaders but because the reality for those living there is that they have very little options with which to make a living. We have some provinces that have neither the population nor the resources (unless you count simply natural resources - which doesn't require and cannot support large populations) to sustain as high an economical standard of living than most regions in the USA. Newfoundland for example, is one big rock....literally. Not too great for farming, much of it is quite far North above the tree line and it's one big industry (fishing) has dried up. Cod used to be huge in that province....now there's practically no cod left in the ocean. They are trying to increase tourism (whale watching, iceburg sightings etc...).

These issues will also profoundly effect productivity levels as well (I don't have time to do further research into this right now). However I did read some articles a while back that touched on productivity as well. I may be incorrect but from memory I can say that Americans work longer hours and take fewer vacations than Canadians. This is a comendable work ethic to be sure and probably is one factor among many that contributes to productivity levels however, as far as quality of life goes, I would rather work slightly less, and be able to take family vacations to regularly bond with and educate my kids, have a year for maternity leave etc... than get that second car, larger wardrobe or bigger house.

It's not the THINGS we can accumulate in this life that are important to me or many of the Canadians I know. This is not how I will measure my success in life when all is said and done. My pursuit is quality over quantity. My relationships, my inner serenity and peace, my health, my kid's education, health and emotional development. As a Canadian, that's how I measure my standard of living.

Also, please don't take this to mean that I don't believe that these things aren't important to Americans as well because I know that they are....we do have many similar values. Perhaps there is a slight variation in the way in which they are ranked. If we were to have a top ten list of the most important things in life (comparing Canadians against Americans) most of the things would be identical, they'd just be arranged in a different order on the list.

:o)



iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2003
Thu, 07-29-2004 - 11:54am
Djie,

I suppose we both agree with "socialized" medicine then. ;o)

I didn't realize you were a cancer survivor. Hope everything is going well for you. It is hopeful that I know a growing number of people who have had cancer and successfully beaten it! It is now surpassing the number of those that haven't been so fortunate by quite a lot.

:o)

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-16-2004
Thu, 07-29-2004 - 12:04pm
cl-mifskie79 ,

I've never been offended by your posts, so no worries. We don't see everything in the same way, but you always seem to be open-minded and fair. To me, that's what's needed for a healthy debate.

I'm sorry if I sounded 'adversarial' in that post. But I had grown tired of other posters constant put-down of Canada - from the supposedly 'lousy socialist health-care' system to the remarks that we are essentially 'living off' the US's coat tails. I do realize that the US spends also a lot on foreign aid and in absolute numbers, they are the world's No 1 contributor. s

Now about terrorism by Al Quaeda.. It didn't start by being global. It BECAME global. And that still doesn't explain what's going on within Israel, because it is only within Israel's boarder. Terrorism always starts small. If handled correctly it can be 'nipped in the bud", if not, it can grow.

I realize discussing the past doesn't solve the current problems. But it's still important to learn from history, to make sure that the next group of terrorist don't get "global".

I also happen to think that one needs to always look at the grievances that terrorist group have. That doesn't give them reason. You can agree with some of the grievances but not agree with the means. The IRA and the FLQ had some 'valid grievances', but their methods were totally repulsive. I think we can not properly fight terrorism if we don't at least try to understand what is behind. Al Quaeda is not really about islamic extremism.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2003
Thu, 07-29-2004 - 12:19pm
My point in joining this disucssion was not to bash Americans but to add my two cents in about our system up here.

The Canadian healthcare system has been getting quite a bit of press down there (usually, Canada isn't even a blip on the radar screen). A lot of that attention is very negative and slightly biased because the US system of healthcare is EXTREMELY profitable for quite a few people. Some will do everything possible to make sure things stay as they are so of course there will be scathing challenges showing all the worst examples to debunk other viable systems of healthcare if it jeopardizes profits. I'm not totally negative about profit either. It can be a driving force for creativity. Making the world better for mankind is all well and good but making tons of money...not THAT'S real incentive.

There are also positives about the American system. I also acknowledge that there are problems with ours. It isn't perfect either. However, having grown up with this system and seen it in action over and over again, I am in a better position to say whether it is and isn't shoddy (on a larger scale).

I also admit that I add my two cents in quite often about American politics etc...American poltics effects everythone else on the globe so even though I'm not American, I tend to comment often on foreign policies which effects others.

I suppose this has come up because there is a slight possiblility that American politicians might be looking to the Canadian (and other) universal healthcare systems with an aim to possibly adopt some of their solutions. Now some Americans feel that they have a vested interest in commenting on ours (natural and people SHOULD be looking at all possible alternatives if they want to instigate improvments). I personally welcome the debate. I'm not sure if it's a double standard per se that you are talking about. There are so few opportunities where Americans even give Cananda and other countries a second thought. In contrast, America is always a big topic for everyone else due to the invasiveness of American culture, products and foreign/economic polices. This is just the way things are.

:o)

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-18-2004
Thu, 07-29-2004 - 12:51pm

<>


Oh, thank goodness.

Miffy - Co-CL For The Politics Today Board

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2003
Thu, 07-29-2004 - 1:02pm
Some of what you are claiming about the drug industry are myths. I read a very good article (which I can't find now) which stated that that a major reason why drug costs are so high in the US is to offset the high cost of litigation against drug companies in the US. This drives up prices to an alarming degree.

Also, it's all well and good to assume that Americans are being sacrificed to pay for further research but the fact remains that what they are really paying for is the lavish lifestyles of the players in the pharmaceutical industry who continued to rake in tremendous profits despite what happens in the economy. The drug lobby in the US is HUGE and American politicians do not want to tangle with them in order to implement some type of price controls.


Small section of this article:

http://www.atla.org/homepage/triaJune04.aspx

"Paying the price

Americans pay the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs, but the reasons for that vary, depending on who’s talking.

“Basically, what we’re importing from Canada is the backbone of the Canadian politicians,” said Families USA’s Vaughn. “They have taken the tough steps to negotiate with powerful lobbies to get a better price.”

Although increases in U.S. prescription drug spending consistently outpace inflation, pharmaceutical companies say the spending funds important research. However, the nine companies that made the top 50 drugs used by seniors in 2001 spent that year on average only 11 percent of their revenues on research, compared to 27 percent on marketing, advertising, and administration, according to a Families USA report. (Profiting from Pain: Where Prescription Drug Dollars Go (July 2002).)"

----------------------------------------

A small quote from this article:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/Living/healthcare031022_canada.html

"U.S. Alone in No Price Controls

Every industrialized country has some form of price controls on patented medications, except the United States. American drug companies say price controls stifle innovation and discourage them from selling certain drugs in foreign markets.

"The principal problem with price controls is you have limitations on access to medicines, and you don't have the newest most innovative treatments," said Alan Holmer, president and CEO of Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America.

But when pressed, representatives of the pharmaceutical industry could only identify eight drugs not available on Canadian shelves, and three of those are contraceptives. That's not enough to bother many Canadians."



iVillage Member
Registered: 04-04-2003
Thu, 07-29-2004 - 1:14pm
<<“The thing about the Canadian system is that even if you are willing to pay for decent care, you can't; it's illegal. There are no private alternatives that you can turn to.” >>

I think this may be changing. There is a lot of debate currently about implimenting some private alternatives. The fear of many is that we'll get a "two-tiered" system thus ensuring that only the rich gets the best care and the rest will get the dregs. This will unravel what we currently have. The point of our healthcare system has always been equality for all Canadians.

Also, "decent" care is already available. Preferential care is not in this current system. Availability has more to do with where one is living (in a city or small isolated community). I don't believe that making the industry profit-driven will change that reality for the positive.

I'm not sure where I come down on this privatization issue yet. If it can be prooven that it will improve our health system for ALL Canadians overall, I am open to it.

Avatar for schifferle
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Thu, 07-29-2004 - 1:23pm
You are obviously correct. In saying "Et tu?" I meant Latin, not French.
Avatar for schifferle
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Thu, 07-29-2004 - 1:26pm
Oui! I had used it knowing it was Latin. (Shakespeare's Julius Caesar)

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