Kerry & his Vietnam Buddies

Avatar for schifferle
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Kerry & his Vietnam Buddies
131
Thu, 07-29-2004 - 9:52am
A perspective from Vietnam Vets who served with Kerry. Few Swift Officers support him. "Of 19 Swift boat skippers pictured other than Kerry" in the photo the Kerry campaign featured in an advertisement released in May titled Lifetime. "11 consider him unfit, 4 are neutral, two have died, and 2 are working with the Kerry campaign. Four other officers were not present for the photo session; all oppose Kerry."

http://www.swiftvets.com/

Senator John Kerry has made his 4-month combat tour in Vietnam the centerpiece of his bid for the Presidency. His campaign jets a handful of veterans around the country, and trots them out at public appearances to sing his praises. John Kerry wants us to believe that these men represent all those he calls his "band of brothers."


But most combat veterans who served with John Kerry in Vietnam see him in a very different light.

Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has been formed to counter the false "war crimes" charges John Kerry repeatedly made against Vietnam veterans who served in our units and elsewhere, and to accurately portray Kerry's brief tour in Vietnam as a junior grade Lieutenant. We speak from personal experience -- our group includes men who served beside Kerry in combat as well as his commanders. Though we come from different backgrounds and hold varying political opinions, we agree on one thing: John Kerry misrepresented his record and ours in Vietnam and therefore exhibits serious flaws in character and lacks the potential to lead.

We regret the need to do this. Most Swift boat veterans would like nothing better than to support one of our own for America's highest office, regardless of whether he was running as a Democrat or a Republican. However, Kerry's phony war crimes charges, his exaggerated claims about his own service in Vietnam, and his deliberate misrepresentation of the nature and effectiveness of Swift boat operations compels us to step forward.

For more than thirty years, most Vietnam veterans kept silent as we were maligned as misfits, addicts, and baby killers. Now that a key creator of that poisonous image is seeking the Presidency we have resolved to end our silence.


The time has come to set the record straight.


(cont.)





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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-18-2004
Sun, 08-01-2004 - 4:34am

Hiya toiyabe!


Welcome to the board!

Miffy - Co-CL For The Politics Today Board

Visit My Website!

Email me!

Miffy - Co-CL For The Politics Today Board

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Sun, 08-01-2004 - 8:01am
See, how notice how 'THEY' will alwasy skirt around the main issue:

Yes, Kerry went to nam but.......

Yes, Kerry got wounded in nam but......

Not gonna work :)

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 08-01-2004 - 11:12am
Exactly what records are you referring to?

http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/lit/election2004/docs.html

Avatar for schifferle
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Sun, 08-01-2004 - 11:52am
http://www.swiftvets.com/index.php?topic=KerryinVietnam

"Constructing a complete picture of Kerry's service is difficult due to gaps in the Naval records provided by the Kerry campaign. These gaps include missing and incomplete fitness reports, missing medical records and missing records related to his medal awards.

For this reason we call upon Senator Kerry to authorize complete access to all his military records by filing a standard Form 180, a simple two-page release form."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/kerry_pur_hrts.htm

John Kerry's Purple Hearts

Purple Heart Number One:

The Boston Globe - June 6, 2003 -- Kerry experienced his first intense combat action on Dec. 2, 1968, when he "semi-volunteered for, was semi-drafted" for a risky covert mission in which he essentially was supposed to "flush out" the enemy, using a little Boston Whaler named "Batman." A larger backup craft was called "Robin."

Unfortunately, Robin had engine trouble, and Batman's exit was delayed until the boats could depart in unison. The Batman crew encountered some Viet Cong, engaged in a firefight, and Kerry was slightly wounded on his arm, earning his first Purple Heart on his first day of serious action.

"It was not a very serious wound at all," recalled William Schachte, who oversaw the mission and went on to become a rear admiral.

Purple Heart Number Two:

The Boston Globe - June 6, 2003 -- On Feb. 20, 1969, Kerry earned his second Purple Heart after sustaining a shrapnel wound in his left thigh. According to a previously unreported Navy report on the battle, a two-boat patrol spotted three men on a riverbank who were wearing black pajamas and running and engaged them in a firefight. While not criticizing this engagement, the Navy report did challenge the decision of unnamed skippers to fire at other "targets of opportunity" in the area.

"Area seemed extremely prosperous and open to psyops action, minimum number of defensive and no offensive bunkers detected," the report said. The naval official who wrote the report concluded: "Future missions in this area should be oriented toward psyops rather than destruction."

The destruction included 40 sampans, 10 hut-style hootches, three bunkers, and 5,000 pounds of rice. The crews from two swift boats had expended more than 14,000 rounds of.50-caliber ammunition. No enemy casualties were reported.

Purple Heart Number Three

The Boston Globe June 6, 2003 --. . . On March 13, 1969, a mine detonated near Kerry's boat, wounding Kerry in the right arm, according to the citation written by Zumwalt. Guerrillas started firing on the boats from the shoreline. Kerry then realized that he had lost overboard a Green Beret who is identified only as "Rassman."

"The man was receiving sniper fire from both banks," according to Kerry's Bronze Star citation from that day. "Lt. Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain, with disregard for his personal safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lt. Kerry then directed his boat to return and assist the other damaged craft and towed the boat to safety. Lt. Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the US Naval Service," Zumwalt's citation said.

Home Free:

The Boston Globe June 6, 2003 -- Kerry had been wounded three times and received three Purple Hearts. Asked about the severity of the wounds, Kerry said that one of them cost him about two days of service, and that the other two did not interrupt his duty. "Walking wounded," as Kerry put it. A shrapnel wound in his left arm gave Kerry pain for years. Kerry declined a request from the Globe to sign a waiver authorizing the release of military documents that are covered under the Privacy Act and that might shed more light on the extent of the treatment Kerry needed as a result of the wounds.

"There were an awful lot of Purple Hearts -- from shrapnel, some of those might have been M-40 grenades," said Elliott, Kerry's commanding officer. "The Purple Hearts were coming down in boxes. Kerry, he had three Purple Hearts. None of them took him off duty. Not to belittle it, that was more the rule than the exception."

The Boston Globe - June 6, 2003 -- . . . The National Archives provided the Globe with a Navy "instruction" document that formed the basis for Kerry's request. The instruction, titled 1300.39, says that a Naval officer who requires hospitalization on two separate occasions, or who receives three wounds "regardless of the nature of the wounds," can ask a superior officer to request a reassignment. The instruction makes clear the reassignment is not automatic. It says that the reassignment "will be determined after consideration of his physical classification for duty and on an individual basis."

Because Kerry's wounds were not considered serious, his reassignment appears to have been made on an individual basis.

Moreover, the instruction makes clear that Kerry could have asked that any reassignment be waived.

The bottom line is that Kerry could have remained but he chose to seek an early transfer . . .

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You should also check out the websites debateguy was kind enough to provide at message #:3497.20

Maybe I overlooked them, but where are those COMPLETE medical records, COMPLETE fitness reports & COMPLETE medal award reports for Kerry at the website you provided?

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-30-2004
Sun, 08-01-2004 - 1:25pm
*****And during a debate about John Kerry’s Military record V George Bush’s Military record where do we fit in Clinton? This debate is about Kerry V Bush. You know Rush Limboob says all day long on his show Clinton won’t leave the spot light, well how can he when “you” Republicans won’t let him!****** Now back to the topic.

I would hardly call John Kerry a coward. So, maybe we ought to investigate all vets who have purple hearts and other medals just to see if they really deserve them. I’m sorry but I’m laughing my butt off here.

John Kerry was in the Navy on a ship out at sea as you put it. John Kerry was attached to the USS Gridley those ships protect the Air Craft carriers. Everyone that is in the Navy is attached to a large ship. Just like the Air Force is attached to a fighter wing and so on… Do you realize he was on a boat that was about 50 feet long they patrolled the rivers in Vietnam? I can hardly support website like Vietnamevetsagainistkerry lol common. That would be like me putting up the bushlies website or bushwatch as a source of information, and don’t you think the right that rules these boards would eat me alive?! Of course they would. If John Kerry’s buddies so hated him why did theose guys show up to be at the DNC? Next I’ll hear that Kerry paid them all to be there…lol



The bottom line here is John Kerry served his country. John Kerry was wounded in action. John Kerry saved one of his shipmates who fell overboard. All in all John Kerry's military record outweighs Bush’s record any day of the week. If you are talking about being a coward, like I said earlier there wasn’t a NVC airplane anywhere near TX. No enemy running around in black PJ looking outfits up and down the HO CHI MINH TRAIL in TX. Bush never went get it. He was too afraid to go. Daddy pulled strings to get him out. I’m sorry but coming from a military family I have no respect for someone like Bush. I hope they release all of John Kerry’s Military records, unlike Bush who never showed up for duty even after repeated letters to him about him to show.

As for his opinions about the war “after” he returned from duty, you all think he shouldn’t voice his opinion? Common, he saw and he talked about what he felt was not right, and that makes him a bad person? Most Vietnam vets I know don’t like discussing their experience over there. It was a horrible war as all wars are. We should not have been there, however I would never put down, yell or scream at, or call any of them baby killers. They served their country when the government called them to duty regardless of their opinion about the war.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-05-2003
Sun, 08-01-2004 - 2:01pm
So, maybe we ought to investigate all vets who have purple hearts and other medals just to see if they really deserve them. "

If John Kerry had not chosen to make his service record such an essential part of his campaign I'd agree with you...he has, however , chosen to run largely on this issue.

As for his opinions about the war “after” he returned from duty, you all think he shouldn’t voice his opinion?"

He had every right to speak his mind...just as everyone else has the right to speak theirs with regard to what he said.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-30-2004
Sun, 08-01-2004 - 3:10pm
****If John Kerry had not chosen to make his service record such an essential part of his campaign I'd agree with you...he has, however , chosen to run largely on this issue.*****

In case you forgot we are at war.

In a time of war, and the countries high patriotism running on a military record, especially the medals he was awarded you'd be a fool not to use the military service.

As for Bush well it’s all in his service records. As a no show for duty back then you can clearly see it now. His “no show” days back then reflects how he spends his time now in his presidential career. I see him more at Crawford, TX, which is the white to the South West. Yes, I do know he can conduct government business any where; however I did not hire him to not show up to work at the White House as President. I didn’t realize that the president’s job has now turned to telecommuting job. I would love to know how many days he has spent at the White House compared to Crawford, TX.

I do "not" expect you to agree with me. I'm responding back to your post. We are debating, it's not a win lose game just a debate. I’m on one side where you are on the other. ;)


Edited 8/1/2004 3:21 pm ET ET by toiyabe

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2004
Sun, 08-01-2004 - 10:19pm

<>


If he makes it an issue, then it's open to scrutiny.


Renee ~~~

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 08-01-2004 - 10:22pm
Perhaps, if you could explain, by date, time, place and entry EXACTLY what it is you think you don't have, it might be available.

Do you seek records to see if Kerry was circumcised? I'm not sure that would be in his medical records, but perhaps. None of your post from various publications said EXACTLY what is sought or alleged to be missing.

EXACTLY what is missing?

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2004
Sun, 08-01-2004 - 10:29pm

John O'Neil has been the unofficial spokesperson for vets against Kerry since 1971 when he confronted Kerry and his lies on the Dick Cavett Show.


http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110005036


Unfit for Office
I was on Mr. Kerry's boat in Vietnam. He doesn't deserve to be commander in chief.

BY JOHN O'NEILL
Tuesday, May 4, 2004 12:01 a.m. EDT


HOUSTON--In 1971, I debated John Kerry, then a national spokesman for the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, for 90 minutes on "The Dick Cavett Show." The key issue in that debate was Mr. Kerry's claim that American troops were committing war crimes in Vietnam "on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command." Now, as Sen. Kerry emerges as the presumptive Democratic nominee for the presidency, I've chosen to re-enter the fray.

Like John Kerry, I served in Vietnam as a Swift Boat commander. Ironically, John Kerry and I served much of our time, a full 12 months in my case and a controversial four months in his, commanding the exact same six-man boat, PCF-94, which I took over after he requested early departure. Despite our shared experience, I still believe what I believed 33 years ago--that John Kerry slandered America's military by inventing or repeating grossly exaggerated claims of atrocities and war crimes in order to advance his own political career as an antiwar activist. His misrepresentations played a significant role in creating the negative and false image of Vietnam vets that has persisted for over three decades.

Neither I, nor any man I served with, ever committed any atrocity or war crime in Vietnam. The opposite was the truth. Rather than use excessive force, we suffered casualty after casualty because we chose to refrain from firing rather than risk injuring civilians. More than once, I saw friends die in areas we entered with loudspeakers rather than guns. John Kerry's accusations then and now were an injustice that struck at the soul of anyone who served there.

During my 1971 televised debate with John Kerry, I accused him of lying. I urged him to come forth with affidavits from the soldiers who had claimed to have committed or witnessed atrocities. To date no such affidavits have been filed. Recently, Sen. Kerry has attempted to reframe his comments as youthful or "over the top." Yet always there has been a calculated coolness to the way he has sought to destroy the record of our honorable service in the interest of promoting his political ambitions of the moment.

John Kennedy's book, "Profiles in Courage," and Dwight Eisenhower's "Crusade in Europe" inspired generations. Not so John Kerry, who has suppressed his book, "The New Soldier," prohibiting its reprinting. There is a clear reason for this. The book repeats John Kerry's insults to the American military, beginning with its front-cover image of the American flag being carried upside down by a band of bearded renegades in uniform--a clear slap at the brave Marines in their combat gear who raised our flag at Iwo Jima. Allow me the reprint rights to your book, Sen. Kerry, and I will make sure copies of "The New Soldier" are available in bookstores throughout America.




Vietnam was a long time ago. Why does it matter today? Since the days of the Roman Empire, the concept of military loyalty up and down the chain of command has been indispensable. The commander's loyalty to the troops is the price a commander pays for the loyalty of the troops in return. How can a man be commander in chief who for over 30 years has accused his "Band of Brothers," as well as himself, of being war criminals? On a practical basis, John Kerry's breach of loyalty is a prescription of disaster for our armed forces.


John Kerry's recent admissions caused me to realize that I was most likely in Vietnam dodging enemy rockets on the very day he met in Paris with Madame Binh, the representative of the Viet Cong to the Paris Peace Conference. John Kerry returned to the U.S. to become a national spokesperson for the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, a radical fringe of the antiwar movement, an organization set upon propagating the myth of war crimes through demonstrably false assertions. Who was the last American POW to die languishing in a North Vietnamese prison forced to listen to the recorded voice of John Kerry disgracing their service by his dishonest testimony before the Senate?




Since 1971, I have refused many offers from John Kerry's political opponents to speak out against him. My reluctance to become involved once again in politics is outweighed now by my profound conviction that John Kerry is simply not fit to be America's commander in chief. Nobody has recruited me to come forward. My decision is the inevitable result of my own personal beliefs and life experience.


Today, America is engaged in a new war, against the militant Islamist terrorists who attacked us on our own soil. Reasonable people may differ about how best to proceed, but I'm sure of one thing--John Kerry is the wrong man to put in charge.

Mr. O'Neill served in Coastal Division 11 in 1969-70, winning two Bronze Stars and additional decorations for his service in Vietnam.

Renee ~~~

Renee ~~~

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