Bush supporters give me a break!

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-02-2004
Bush supporters give me a break!
239
Wed, 08-04-2004 - 2:17pm
I have just read through some of the info on the GOP thread and this will be my first time posting a discussion, so here it goes:

I truly feel like whenever I hear a Bush supporter speak, it is like listening to someone with Stolkholm syndrome, THEY ARE COMPLETELY BRAINWASHED!!! I mean, honestly, unless you are living in a cave (without internet, mind you) there is no way that the Bush supporters do not intake the same news that I do.

HE LIED!!! HE LIED!!! Let this serve as a newsflash to anyone who did not know. THERE ARE NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. IF THERE ARE, HIS DAD SUPPLIED THEM. This is something that they were aware of befor the sent us into Iraq. That is unethical manipulation of your position of power.

For those of you who were just about to argue that we went in for "humanitarian" reasons to collapse the tyranical reign of Saddam, let me just halt you in your tracks. Why are we not in any country in Africa, in which there are civil wars, AIDs epidemics, and feminist repression running rampant due to governmental proceedings? Why are we not in China? Why are we not in Palestine (oh wait, I forgot, we are, sponsering their killing by the Israelis)? Becaus they do not benefit us? So what's the deal, we fight for humanity contigent on how much money we gain from it? Give me a break!

I read another posting about how Republicans are frustrated with the Democrats focus on how George Bush cannot speak. A couple interesting points: It worries us that he cannot speak because you'd think that after a couple years at Yale, the University rated number one on the recently released Princenton Review, that he would be able to process a few words. I guess the fact that he graduated with like a D average just does not count. Additionally, I would just like to call to attention the fact that over and over again science has come to the conclusion that the major difference between humans and the animal kingdom is our ability to speak, and our advanced methods of communication which in turn lead to organization and technology, thus the advancement of the human race. If he cannot speak, then he is getting closer and closer to the animal, right?

Finally, on the GOP thread several posters commented on how although Dems were calling them nervous, they were actually unwaveringly confident. Yeah, I would be too if my party had just rigged the last election!!

People, women, get to the polls!!

Let's make it like father, like son, one term!

Lani

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-24-2004
Thu, 08-05-2004 - 3:49pm


By the time Kerry actually takes office in February, think about how many more people have been murdered, raped, starved, and forced to flee their homes. I am more considered with the most immediate future, not the future 6 months from now.

I did not realize there were sanctions against Sudan, I didnt realize that out of everyone in the world, we were the first to draw attention to something. Was this last year when the majority of the killings started to happen? I thought Egypt just sent aid, but I could be wrong.

Iraq was in such a humanitarian crisis, and we acted then didn't we?? From previous posts, you said that the main reason we went into Iraq was for humanitiarian reasons, not WMD's. You have defended the president many times in saying this was his main reason for attacking. So what is the difference between Iraq and Sudan???

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2004
Thu, 08-05-2004 - 4:11pm
Actually the UN and the World Court condemn the wall. Neither are in a position to force Israel to take the wall down. There is a difference.

With regards to the US and the UN, the US, since it is a member state, was withing their rights to use military force, according to several of the UN resolutions passed after the unconditional surrender of Iraq in the first Gulf War.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2004
Thu, 08-05-2004 - 6:06pm

<>


They understand what our decadence, diversity, prosperity, & liberty mean to their view of Islam very well, which is why they hate us. The 911 Commission was unanimous that their object is to destroy our way of life, but that is the means to another end. Their goal is to install

Renee ~~~

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2004
Thu, 08-05-2004 - 6:12pm
I think you are confused.

Renee ~~~

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2004
Thu, 08-05-2004 - 6:21pm

The US isn't a popular democracy; it's a union of individual states

Renee ~~~

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2004
Thu, 08-05-2004 - 6:34pm
And mifsky suggested you post your comments about the GOP thread on the DEM board.

Renee ~~~

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2004
Thu, 08-05-2004 - 6:40pm
Thank you for understanding. I don't see a problem with continuing this thread along the lines of the current discussions (Iraq, Sudan, Israel, terrorism, WMD, etc), but I think we should let the comments made about posts on the GOP board lie where are they are.

Renee ~~~

Renee ~~~

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2004
Thu, 08-05-2004 - 7:10pm

Here are some of my previous posts on Sudan.


http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-elpoliticsto/?msg=3426.2


http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-elpoliticsto/?msg=3426.20


http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-elpoliticsto/?msg=3426.31


http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-elpoliticsto/?msg=3426.32


http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-elpoliticsto/?msg=3426.5


At this point, we are not the only contry showing concern. I know it's an issue in the UK, but I don't believe they've been able to reach a concensus on what to do, and I would hope that other countries are grappling with the question as well.


I know the bill about sanctions has passed at least one house and that Bush has/will sign it, but I'm not sure if it's been approved by both. We have repeatedly tried to get the UN to impose sanctions, but France & a couple ME countries keep shooting that effort down.


I'm not sure about Egypt. The govt. of Sudan has refused to allow visas for aid workers who want to enter the country, and everything I've read said that Arab states were unified in their support of the Sudan govt., which insists that no one come to the aid of the black Muslims and has rejected offers of aid for them. If you find out anything differently, please post it.


I have never said humanitarian reasons were the only or prime reason we invaded Iraq; it was one of several. I'd say international terrorism was the prime one.


However, I did favor involvement in Rwanda and

Renee ~~~

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-24-2004
Thu, 08-05-2004 - 7:32pm
Thanks for the links. Yes, Egypt air lifted aid to Sudan, and Sudan has took the ban off of humanitarian aid, so all are free to send it.

"Three Egyptian planes loaded with 60 tonnes of food and medicines have landed in the crisis-hit region of Darfur in western Sudan."

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/1E058D80-FD78-4169-AC9F-10CE3A034EF0.htm

As far as sanctions goes, this is the closest thing I came to finding any in the Sudan..

http://www.american.edu/projects/mandala/TED/gumarab.htm

1. The Issue

In late 1997, the US Congress passed into law a bill that placed economic sanctions on the country of Sudan. The United States decided to punish the Sudanese government, which the State Department declared is a "sponsor of terrorism and a relentless oppressor of its minority Christian population." The original bill was meant to terminate all commercial activities between the two countries, however, this did not come to fruition. Though the Sudanese government has no active lobby in this country, while the bill made its way through committee, several lobbying groups made a sudden appearance and opposed outright passage of the bill. They did not oppose the sanctions as a whole, they took issue on the possible sanction of only one product, gum arabic.

2. Description

A substance that very few are aware of, but one that almost all Americans have come in contact with. Gum arabic, a derivative of the acacia tree, is an important ingredient in various products ranging from soda and candy to pharmaceuticals. Gum arabic's applications are wide spread, some typical applications are acting as an emulsifier, flavoring agent, and thickener in both food and pharmaceuticals. Gum arabic is also used in the newspaper and magazine printing process, allowing ink to better stick to the paper while keeping it from smearing, as well as protecting the printing plates from oxidation.

Gum arabic is used by a number of industries. When the companies that rely on it heavily realized that their primary source of gum arabic was about to be cut off, the lobbying groups that represent those US companies sprung into action – Nigeria, Chad, Cameroon, and Mexico also export gum arabic, but Sudan is by far the largest exporter. The result of the lobbying efforts was an exemption placed on gum arabic allowing companies to apply for a license which permits them to import gum arabic from Sudan.

In August 1998, the attention of Congress was again drawn to the economic sanctions placed on Sudan, due to an alleged relation of suspected terrorist financier, Osama bin Laden, to many Sudanese companies - including the Gum Arabic Company, one of the leading exporters of gum in Sudan. However, most US companies claim that if there is indeed a relationship between Sudanese gum arabic exporters and Mr. bin Laden, they will cease all trade relations with those companies.

The reason why there is such a flap over gum arabic is because it is plentiful in Sudan; in fact gum arabic exports from Sudan compose 70 to 90 percent of the world's supply. The US alone imports 4,000 to 5,000 tons of gum arabic from Sudan, approximately US$9 million a year. In 1995, Sudan exported about US$54 million of gum arabic – about 11 percent of its total exports that year.


As far as sanctions go, we see that they do not at all bother the government as much as they do every other citizen!! The very first to suffer? The very people who are being killed, so I am in agreement with the French, sanctions will not work but things drastically worse...

"In Darfur, it would be better to help the Sudanese get over the crisis so their country is pacified rather than sanctions which would push them back to their misdeeds of old," junior Foreign Minister Renaud Muselier told French radio"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3875277.stm

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2004
Thu, 08-05-2004 - 9:45pm

Thanks for the info. I was looking back over my links & may have been thinking of the aid package going through congress instead of the sanctions. I'll see if I can turn anything else up.

Renee ~~~

Renee ~~~

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