McCain condemns anti-Kerry ads

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
McCain condemns anti-Kerry ads
82
Thu, 08-05-2004 - 12:00pm
Hmmm...McCain says the people in these ads DID NOT serve on the Swift boat commanded by John Kerry....The man that Kerry saved said there were on 6 people that were on John Kerry's boat. Five of the six support Kerry and one is deceased.


McCain condemns anti-Kerry ads, calls on White House to follow suit

-RON FOURNIER, AP Political Writer

Thursday, August 5, 2004


(08-05) 07:20 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) --

Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry's military service "dishonest and dishonorable" and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.

"It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me," McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press, referring to his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush.

The 60-second ad features Vietnam veterans who accuse the Democratic presidential nominee of lying about his decorated Vietnam War record and betraying his fellow veterans by later opposing the conflict.

"When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry," one of the veterans, Larry Thurlow, says in the ad.

The ad, scheduled to air in a few markets in Ohio, West Virginia and Wisconsin, was produced by Stevens, Reed, Curcio and Potham, the same team that produced McCain's ads in 2000.

"I wish they hadn't done it," McCain said of his former advisers. "I don't know if they knew all the facts."

Asked if the White House knew about the ad or helped find financing for it, McCain said, "I hope not, but I don't know. But I think the Bush campaign should specifically condemn the ad."

Later, McCain said the Bush campaign has denied any involvement and added, "I can't believe the president would pull such a cheap stunt."

The White House did not immediately address McCain's call that they repudiate the spot.

Steve Schmidt, a spokesman for the Bush-Cheney campaign, said Kerry's record and statements on the war on terrorism -- not his service in Vietnam -- are fair game. "The Bush campaign never has and will never question John Kerry's service in Vietnam," he said.

In 2000, Bush's supporters sponsored a rumor campaign against McCain in the South Carolina primary, helping Bush win the primary and the nomination. McCain's supporters have never forgiven the Bush team.

McCain said that's all in the past to him, but he's speaking out against the anti-Kerry ad because he believes it's bad for the political system. "It reopens all the old wounds of the Vietnam War, which I spent the last 35 years trying to heal," he said.

"I deplore this kind of politics. I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. I think George Bush served honorably in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War."

McCain himself spent more than five years in a Vietnam prisoner of war camp. A bona fide war hero, McCain, like Kerry, used his war record as the foundation of his presidential campaign.

The Kerry campaign has denounced the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, saying none of the men in the ad served on the boat that Kerry commanded. The leader of the group, retired Adm. Roy Hoffmann, said none of the 13 veterans in the commercial served on Kerry's boat but rather were in other swiftboats within 50 yards of Kerry's.

Jim Rassmann, an Army veteran who was saved by Kerry, said there were only six crewmates who served with Kerry on his boat. Five support his candidacy and one is deceased.


Edited 8/5/2004 12:03 pm ET ET by happy2beamom2001

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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2004
Thu, 08-05-2004 - 10:24pm
Actually, the "package" that they sent to the TV stations along with the ad is supposedly very credible and contains evidence of what they purpose in the ad.

I would love to see what this "package" contains to see what the evidence is so I can make my mind up for myself.

Avatar for tmcgoughy
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Fri, 08-06-2004 - 7:25am
I too would be curious about this "evidence".
The first key to wisdom is constant and frequent questioning, for by doubting we are led to question and by questioning we arrive at the truth.  -
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Fri, 08-06-2004 - 9:19am
OK DG, what's credible about guys who never served with Kerry talking about Kerry?

Mud and Slime, much better than Bush's 2001 - Present record.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-05-2003
Fri, 08-06-2004 - 9:23am
Not debateguy, but as you ask what's credible about those who didn't serve with Kerry commenting on his service... well... nothing... however the Swiftvets did serve with Kerry, and thus may easily comment as they were there :-)
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Fri, 08-06-2004 - 9:24am
OK, which ones in that commercial do you claim served with him?

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-05-2003
Fri, 08-06-2004 - 9:45am
Geez, I haven't yet had a chance to get the book... though I did get a glimpse of a free chapter... I'll post some of it here.. perhaps it will spur debate... certainly it'll give you a good idea of what the book is going to be like... enjoy :-)

-------------------------------

“Many took exception to the Purple Hearts awarded to Kerry.

His ‘wounds’ were suspect, so insignificant as to not be worthy

of the award of such a medal. That Kerry would seek the

Purple Heart for such ‘wounds’ is a mockery of the intent of

the Purple Heart and an abridgement of the valor of those to

whom the Purple Heart had been awarded with justification.”

WILLIAM FRANKE

Swift Boat veteran

A normal tour of duty in Vietnam was at least one year for all personnel.

Many sailors, like Tom Wright (who would later object

to operating with Kerry in Vietnam) and Steven Gardner (the

gunner’s mate who sat behind and above Kerry for most of his Vietnam

stay and came to regard him as incompetent and dishonest),

stayed for longer periods either because of the special needs of the

Navy or because they had volunteered to do so. With very few exceptions

in the history of Swift Boats in Vietnam, everyone served a oneyear

tour unless he was seriously wounded. One exception was John

Kerry, who requested to leave Vietnam after four months, citing an

obscure regulation that permitted release of personnel with three Purple

Hearts. John Kerry is also the only known Swiftee who received

the Purple Heart for a self-inflicted wound.

None of Kerry’s Purple Hearts were for serious injuries. They were

concededly minor scratches at best, resulting in no lost duty time.

Each Purple Heart decoration is very controversial, with considerable

evidence (and in two of the cases, with incontrovertible and conclusive

evidence) that the minor injuries were caused by Kerry’s own

hand and were not the result of hostile fire of any kind. They are a

subject of ridicule within our unit. “I did get cut a few times, but I forgot

to recommend myself for a Purple Heart. Sorry about that,” wrote

John Howland, a boat commander with call sign “Gremlin.”1

Moreover, many Swiftees have now come forth to question Kerry’s

deception. “I was there the entire time Kerry was and witnessed two

of his war ‘wounds.’ I was also present during the action he

received his Bronze Star. I know what a fraud he is. How can I help?”

wrote Van Odell, a gunner from Kerry’s unit in An Thoi.2 Commander

John Kipp, USN (retired), of Coastal Division 13 also volunteered,

“If there is anything I can do to unmask this charlatan, please let me

know. He brings disgrace to all who served.”

Swiftees have remarked that, if Kerry faked even one of these

awards, he owes the Navy 243 additional days in Vietnam before he

runs for anything. In a unit where terribly wounded personnel like

Shelton White (now an undersea film producer who records specials

for National Geographic) chose to return to duty after three wounds

on the same day, Kerry’s actions were disgraceful. Indeed, many share

the feelings of Admiral Roy Hoffmann, to whom all Swiftees

reported: Kerry simply “bugged out” when the heat was on.

For military personnel no medal or award (with the exception of

the Congressional Medal of Honor) holds the significance of the Purple

Heart. John O’Neill remembers witnessing, as a five-year-old

child, the presentation of the Purple Heart to his widowed aunt,

standing with her five children, at a memorial service for his uncle, a

fighter pilot lost in Korea. Many remember the Purple Heart pinned

on the pillows of the badly wounded in military hospitals throughout

the world during America’s wars in defense of freedom. For this reason,

there were those in Coastal Division 11 who turned down Purple

Hearts because, when the medals were offered, these honorable

men felt they did not really deserve them. Veteran Gary Townsend

wrote, “I was on PCF 3 1969 to 1970 . . . I also turned down a

Purple Heart award (which required seven stitches) offered to me

while in Nam because I thought a little cut was insignificant as to

what others had suffered to get theirs.”3

To cheat by getting a Purple Heart from a self-inflicted wound

would be regarded as befitting the lowest levels of military conduct.

To use such a faked award to leave a combat sector early would be

lower yet. Finally, to make or use faked awards as the basis for running

for president of the United States, while faulting one’s political

opponents for not having similar military decorations, would

represent unbelievable hypocrisy and the truly bottom rung of

human conduct. Anyone engaging in such conduct would be unfit

for even the lowest rank in the Navy, to say nothing of the commander

in chief.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Fri, 08-06-2004 - 10:05am
Ok, my bad. I thought you were talking about the Commercial that the swift vets were running that this thread is about.

The commercial, features guys who never served with Kerry.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-05-2003
Fri, 08-06-2004 - 10:11am
Well if you wish to make that claim, please list them and where they served... it seems to make such a claim you'd have to prove they didn't serve with Kerry... right now, many of us are still trying to figure out the story... undoubtedly things will change as there are challenges and counter challenges... overall the hope is to arrive at something close to truth... or at least to have a he said they said which are clear and are consistant over time... right now I'm anticipating swiftvets are having their book gone over carefully and some of the stuff will be altered... what is left standing will be interesting :-)

But please do list us all the people on the commercial, and cite some authority that they were not in the serving with Kerry :-) I recall one claiming to be the person who treated him for a purple heart... this qualifies to me as someone who worked with Kerry... do you feel someone who treated Kerry for a wound didn't work with him (I guess technically it was on him hehe).

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Fri, 08-06-2004 - 10:20am
Wait, I say the truth and now I have to back up the truth?

hehehe, anti-slime. That's what it's come down to, I LOVE IT!

First, none of them are claiming to have served with Kerry, they're just badmouthing him.

Second, if you buy into that slime politics and I have no doubt you no based on prior threads, then no amount of TRUTH is going to sway you.

Third, the people who served DIRECTLY with Kerry, told their story.

So, have fun throwing the slime.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2004/08/06/mccain_on_swift_boat_veterans/index_np.html

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/08/06/MNGUT83SS41.DTL

http://www.adweek.com/aw/national/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000601176

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-05-2003
Fri, 08-06-2004 - 10:29am
Thanks for the links, the Salon didn't help as they want a subscription... the sfgate didn't help either... it seemed to spew pretty much the Democratic line... the last, adweek WAS helpful... the final paragraph "Hoffmann said none of the 13 veterans in the commercial served on Kerry's boat but rather were in other swiftboats within 50 yards of Kerry's. The group claims that there was no gunfire on the day Kerry pulled Rassmann from a muddy river in the Mekong Delta and that Kerry's arm was not wounded, as he has claimed."

Hoffmann is the former admiral who leads swiftvets.... and the claim the group is making is the one quoted... can we at least agree that the claim of the swiftvets is from those on boats within 50 yards of Kerry's. :-)

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