Kerry helps a wounded kid in Vietnam NOT

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-05-2003
Kerry helps a wounded kid in Vietnam NOT
18
Thu, 08-05-2004 - 2:08pm
Kerry helps a wounded kid in Vietnam meet his maker... careful women, if you have children... Kerry's been reported to shoot em...

-------------------------------------

John O'Neill, co-author of UNFIT FOR COMMAND, believes that "Kerry's Star would never have been awarded had his actions been reviewed through normal channels. In his case, he was awarded the medal two days after the incident with no review. The medal was arranged to boost the morale of Coastal Division 11, but it was based on false and incomplete information provided by Kerry himself."

According to Kerry's Silver Star citation, Kerry was in command of a three-boat mission on the Dong Cung River. As the boats approached the target area, they came under intense enemy fire. Kerry ordered his boat to attack and all boats opened fire. He then beached directly in front of the enemy ambushers. In the battle that followed, the crews captured enemy weapons. His boat then moved further up the river to suppress more enemy fire. A rocket exploded near Kerry's boat, and he ordered to charge the enemy. Kerry beached his boat 10 feet from the rocket position and led a landing party ashore to pursue the enemy.

Kerry' citation reads: "The extraordinary daring and personal courage of Lt. Kerry in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire were responsible for the highly successful mission."

Here's what O'Neill and the Swiftees say: "According to Kerry's crewman Michael Madeiros, Kerry had an agreement with him to turn the boat in and onto the beach if fired upon. Each of the three boats involved in the operation was involved in the agreement." O'Neill writes that one crewman even recalls a discussion of probable medals.

Doug Reese, a pro Kerry Army veteran, recounted what happened that day to O'Neill, "Far from being alone, the boats were loaded with many soldiers commanded by Reese and two other advisors. When fired at, Reese's boat--not Kerry's--was the first to beach in the ambush zone. Then Reese and other troops and advisors (not Kerry) disembarked, killing a number of Viet Cong and capturing a number of weapons. None of the participants from Reese's boat received Silver Stars.

O'Neill continues: "Kerry's boat moved slightly downstream and was struck by a rocket-propelled grenade. . . .A young Viet Cong in a loincloth popped out of a hole, clutching a grenade launcher, which may or may not have been loaded. . . Tom Belodeau, a forward gunner, shot the Viet Cong with an M-60 machine gun in the leg as he fled. . . . Kerry and Medeiros (who had many troops in their boat) took off, perhaps with others, and followed the young Viet Cong and shot him in the back, behind a lean to."

O'Neill concludes "Whether Kerry's dispatching of a fleeing, wounded, armed or unarmed teenage enemy was in accordance with the customs of war, it is very clear that many Vietnam veterans and most Swiftees do not consider this action to be the stuff of which medals of any kind are awarded; nor would it even be a good story if told in the cold details of reality. There is no indication that Kerry ever reported that the Viet Cong was wounded and fleeing when dispatched. Likewise, the citation simply ignores the presence of the soldiers and advisors who actually 'captured the enemy weapons' and routed the Viet Cong. . . . that Kerry attacked a 'numerically superior force in the face of intense fire' is simply false. There was little or no fire after Kerry followed the plan. . . . The lone, wounded, fleeing young Viet Cong in a loincloth was hardly a force superior to the heavily armed Swift Boat and its crew and the soldiers carried aboard."

DRUDGE learns from UNFIT FOR COMMAND that if Kerry's superior officers knew the truth, they would never have recommended the award:

"Admiral Roy Hoffmann, who sent a Bravo Zulu (meaning "good work"), to Kerry upon learning of the incident, was very surprised to discover in 2004 what had actually occurred. Hoffmann had been told that Kerry had spontaneously beached next to the bunker and almost single-handedly routed a bunkered force in Viet Cong. He was shocked to find out that Kerry had beached his boat second in a preplanned operation, and that he had killed a single, wounded teenage foe as he fled."

"Commander Geoge Elliott, who wrote up the initial draft of Kerry's Silver Star citation, confirms that neither he, nor anyone else in the Silver Star process that he knows, realized before 1996 that Kerry was facing a single, wounded young Viet Cong fleeing in a loincloth. While Commander Elliott and many other Swiftees believe that Kerry committed no crime in killing the fleeing, wounded enemy (with a loaded or empty launcher), others feel differently. Commander Elliott indicates that a Silver Star recommendation would not have been made by him had he been aware of the actual facts."

Pages

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-31-2003
Thu, 08-05-2004 - 7:07pm
Personally, I would rather hear more about the issues. I think that we reap what we sow though. There have been enough Bush bashing books out on the market this year, so why would we not expect and anti Kerry book? Just like "One hand washes the other" one hand slings mud as well as the other. On topics like this, I dont' think either party has room for complaint. Roles reversed, they'd all do what the other has done.

IMHO, in the case of this book, John O'Neill was speaking out against Kerry 40 years ago, he just never had enough incentive (the Presidency and $) before. No one would have really cared if the Presidency wasn't part of this picture.
NIU Ribbon   Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2004
Thu, 08-05-2004 - 9:46pm

<<Personally, I would rather hear more about the issues. >>


Me, too, but Kerry isn't running on the issues. He's running on his leadership based on his actions in Vietnam.


<>


That applies to Kerry in more than one way. Not only is he getting hit with the kind of personal attacks that Bush has, he was the one that made his action in Vietnam a political issue.


Renee ~~~

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2004
Thu, 08-05-2004 - 10:14pm
I agree about the issues, but character is also important.

There is a new television ad out from the Swift vets for truth, or something, and while it is very compelling, it deals with 30 years ago, and if it is true, it does reflect somewhat on Kerry's character, but I still want to hear about the issues of today.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2004
Thu, 08-05-2004 - 10:17pm
John McCain probably knows more about this kind of smear campaign than anyone. Has anyone heard or read his words regarding the use of Kerry's service record to drag him through the mud?

Read and listen to what John McCain has to say. This man, more than any other understands the ruthlessness and destructiveness of such an attack.

This kind of inexcusable attack creates enough stench to pollute our entire nation.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-05-2003
Thu, 08-05-2004 - 10:22pm
I don't think Bush is thrilled with this... but a representative of swiftvets was on Hannity and Colmes and indicated even if the President requested they wouldn't withdraw the ad.

Democrats have been smearing Bush for quite some time, it now appears there is counter smearing... and Democrats seem to be smarting... I'm a bit surprised they weren't expecting this... the questions now... Kerry has admitted to war crimes, has made conflicting statements... will he release his entire record for review so his claims (Kerry's) and the claims of swiftvets can be vetted by 3rd parties?

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-31-2003
Thu, 08-05-2004 - 10:47pm
"Me, too, but Kerry isn't running on the issues. He's running on his leadership based on his actions in Vietnam."

That is true, and it does make his military record fair game. Also, if he is going to have Vietnam buddies on stage with him at the DNC convention, those that are opposed to his becoming President should also get a voice.

NIU Ribbon   Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-31-2003
Thu, 08-05-2004 - 10:59pm
You are right, character is very important. I am one of those types that gets squimish with too much confrontation. And character asassination, rightly deserved or not, gets to me. The nitpicking and 'tit for tat' make me uncomfortable b/c I can't tell who is exaggerating or telling the truth, and it brings such ugliness out in people. I know everyone on this board has witnessed that. I'd rather just believe the best. It's a pretty naive, and stupid point of view I know.
NIU Ribbon   Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Fri, 08-06-2004 - 9:12am
Not one of those people even knew Kerry in Vietnam.

Guess that makes no difference eh?

Hey now, Slime and Mud the new Anti-Democrat!

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-05-2003
Fri, 08-06-2004 - 9:50am
The vast majority of swiftvets on their website claim to have worked with Kerry. I would be interested in understanding the basis of your concern... is it that the swiftvets weren't under command of Kerry, I'm not sure that's a claim they're making... I believe they are claiming to have worked with, alongside, and to have conducted joint operations with Kerry.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Fri, 08-06-2004 - 10:11am
I replied to DG's post about the Anti-Kerry ad that's running on TV, which features vets who never served with or under Kerry in the war.

Whether or not they claimed it is irrelevant, when someone like John McCain comes out and says it's slime, it's got several more layers of it underneath. Hell, it's not the first time McCain has come out and denounced the slime thrown at Kerry.

Fox News shows Bush's approval rating at 44, satisfaction with the country even less. No wonder the slime is reaching new heights. :)

Pages