Larry Thurlow respons to Kerry smears
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| Thu, 08-19-2004 - 12:59pm |
I am convinced that the language used in my citation for a Bronze Star was language taken directly from John Kerry's report which falsely described the action on the Bay Hap River as action that saw small arms fire and automatic weapons fire from both banks of the river.
To this day, I can say without a doubt in my mind, along with other accounts from my shipmates-there was no hostile enemy fire directed at my boat or at any of the five boats operating on the river that day.
I submitted no paperwork for a medal nor did I file an after action report describing the incident. To my knowledge, John Kerry was the only officer who filed a report describing his version of the incidents that occurred on the river that day.
It was not until I had left the Navy-approximately three months after I left the service-that I was notified that I was to receive a citation for my actions on that day.
I believed then as I believe now that I received my Bronze Star for my efforts to rescue the injured crewmen from swift boat number three and to conduct damage control to prevent that boat from sinking.
My boat and several other swift boats went to the aid of our fellow swift boat sailors whose craft was adrift and taking on water. We provided immediate rescue and damage control to prevent boat three from sinking and to offer immediate protection and comfort to the injured crew.
After the mine exploded, leaving swift boat three dead in the water, John Kerry's boat, which was on the opposite side of the river, fled the scene.
US Army Special Forces officer Jim Rassmann, who was on Kerry's boat at the time, fell off the boat and into the water. Kerry's boat returned several minutes later-under no hail of enemy gunfire-to retrieve Rassmann from the river only seconds before another boat was going to pick him up.
Kerry campaign spokespersons have conflicting accounts of this incident-the latest one being that Kerry's boat did leave but only briefly and returned under withering enemy fire to rescue Mr. Rassmann. However, none of the other boats on the river that day reported enemy fire nor was anyone wounded by small arms action. The only damage on that day was done to boat three-a result of the underwater mine. None of the other swift boats received damage from enemy gunfire.
And in a new development, Kerry campaign officials are now finally acknowledging that while Kerry's boat left the scene, none of the other boats on the river ever left the damaged swift boat. This is a direct contradiction to previous accounts made by Jim Rassmann in the Oregonian newspaper and a direct contradiction to the "No Man Left Behind" theme during the Democratic National Convention.
These ever changing accounts of the Bay Hap River incident by Kerry campaign officials leave me asking one question.if no one ever left the scene of the Bay Hap River incident, how could anyone be left behind?
Edited 8/19/2004 1:14 pm ET ET by truemobile

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I cannot even believe we're picking apart 35 year old records when the overriding point is that HE WAS THERE.
The following is a summary of combat actions of PCF94 from February 12 to March 17, 1969 taken from after-action reports and the Coastal Division Eleven Command History on file at the Naval Operational Archives. All locations are near the south end of the Mekong Delta in Vietnam.
12 FEB 1969
Two swiftboats inserted Navy Seals and conducted normal river patrols the night of February 12 and early morning of February 13.
13 FEB 1969
PCF 94 conducted routine Psyops mission.
14 FEB 1969
Two swiftboats inserted seal team and provided protection for mission.
18 FEB 1969 Bay Hap River
Kerry's boat and another swiftboat, PCF72, entered the Bay Hap River in the afternoon carrying Navy Seals. A mine exploded close to PCF72, and a short time later the two boats came under heavy fire. Five B-40 rounds were fired at Kerry's boat, three missed and exploded on the river bank, one passed across the bow and another passed across the boat's stern. A mine exploded about 15 yards in front of Kerry's boat. It was suspected that the Viet Cong had expected the boats to come up the river and planned an ambush.
19 FEB 1969 Bay Hap River
As a follow-up to the mission of 18 February, five swiftboats moved downriver in the morning with a company of South Vietnamese marines to engage troops that took swiftboats under fire the day before. The boats came under fire several times during the day, although damage was limited to "several SA (small arms) holes in superstructure and rigging of PCH 72 and 94."
20 FEB 1969 Dam Doi River
On a patrol of the Dam Doi River with five other swiftboats and helicopter cover, PCF 94 came under intense small arms and rocket fire from three personnel in black pajamas on the bank. Kerry and one member of his crew were wounded. Kerry received shrapnel wounds in his left thigh. The second man, EN2 Eugene Kenneth Thorson suffered shrapnel wounds in his right arm. Both were treated aboard the USCGC Wachusetts and returned to duty. Persons filing reports on this mission were highly critical of the cover provided by the helicopters and noted that the area seemed prosperous and lacked offensive bunkers, and suggested that future operations in the area avoid destruction. Kerry received the Purple Heart for this operation.
25 FEB 1969 Cua Lon River
Early in the morning, four swiftboats, including Kerry's, rendezvoused to conduct operations against Viet Cong targets with cover from helicopters. The party destroyed several boats as well as a suspected Viet Cong meeting hall containing Ho Chi Minh posters and Viet Cong uniforms. Later in the day, the boats encountered heavy fire from rockets and automatic weapons. The boats and helicopters suppressed the enemy fire. When a man was seen running into a bunker, PCF94 beached and an assault party was sent to retrieve him. The landing party was fired on shortly after landing on the beach and pinned down until another boat could reach the area. When the Viet Cong refused to leave the bunker in spite of repeated requests from the Officer in Charge, the bunker was destroyed.
26 FEB 1969 Cua Lon River
On night patrol with two other swiftboats, PCFs 43 and 44, the patrol discovered a double-hulled sampan. Five men on the sampan jumped overboard, but were trapped the boats at the waters edge. They resisted capture and boat crews had to jump off the boat and drag them back on board. After taking the Vietnamese prisoners back to the boats, all three boats began to pull away from shore when a rocket fired from shore exploded near PCFs 43 and 44. The boats returned fire and withdrew with five prisoners. One of the prisoners taken on board was seriously injured with a broken leg. When filing their report, the crews believed that the prisoners avoided capture to delay and facilitate an attack on the boats. After interrogation, it was determined that the prisoners were not military.
27 FEB 1969 Bay Hap River
On an evening patrol with two other swiftboats, PCFs 23 and 43, about 26 miles south of Ca Mu, the patrol took heavy fire, including five rockets. Three rockets narrowly missed Kerry's boat, and exploded on the opposite bank. Another rocket exploded near PCF 94, and the fifth exploded near PCF 23, wounding a crewmember on that boat. The boats suppressed the fire and withdrew. During the battle, a sailor on Kerry's boat, Crewmember/Trainee Michael J. Givens was shot in the upper right arm. Givens injuries were not serious and he was sent to the 79th field hospital in Can Tho.
28 FEB 1969 Bay Hap River
Three PCFs were traveling up the Bay Hap River with 70 South Vietnamese Militia investigating an area where the boats were ambushed the previous night. During the patrol, the boats came under heavy fore from the shore. Kerry, serving as the Officer in Tactical Command of the mission, ordered the units to turn toward the fire and beach. As the boats approached shore, more than 20 Viet Cong troops stood up and ran. They were quickly overrun when the Marines troops reached the shore. While the Militia searched the area, PCFs 23 and 94 left to investigate another site where an Army advisor reported gunshots. Returning from the site, a B-40 rocket exploded close to PCF94, blowing out one of the windows. Kerry again ordered the units to turn into the fire and charge the ambush site. PCF 94 landed in the center of ambush and a man jumped up holding a B-40 rocket launcher and started to run. The forward M-60 gunner on PCF94 wounded him in the leg as Kerry jumped off the boat and chased him inland behind a hooch and shot him. Marines swept the area, and received fire from snipers and small arms that was suppressed with the assistance of mortars and gunfire from the swiftboats. The landing parties found vast stores of rice, ammunition and clothing. The boats were fired on one additional time as they were heading back down the river. The site of the second ambush was believed to be a major Viet Cong supply point. Kerry received the Silver Star for this operation.
1 MAR 1969 Bay Hap River
Four Swiftboats conducted operation "U-HAUL," which involved towing fuel bladders up the Bay Hap River to Cai Nuoc. The units received light fire during the operation.
10 MAR 1969 Cua Lon River
Four swiftboats, including PCF94, carried troops and surveyed an area where other boats were ambushed two days earlier. No incidents occurred.
11 MAR 1969 Cua Lon River
Three swiftboats cleared the Cua Lon River of barricades. The mission received no hostile fire and no casualties were reported.
12 MAR 1969 Cua Lon River
Four swiftboats proceeded up Cau Lon with 20 troops on board. The boats encountered hostile small arms fire, which was suppressed. A short time later, two or three mines detonated and the boats came under heavy automatic weapons fire from both banks. Unable to suppress the fire, the boats moved south to extract the troops and called in air support. After the area received artillery and air strikes, the boats returned and inserted the troops, who observed, but could not capture 9 Vet Cong troops. One female was captured, taken to the USS Washtenaw and later returned.
13 MAR 1969 Bay Hap River; Dong Cung Canal
Four swiftboats were engaged in moving Mobile Strike Force troops on the Bay Hap River and the Dong Cung Canal. Moving down the river in the afternoon following a day of heavy fighting, a mine detonated underneath PCF 3, lifting it 2-3 feet out of the water and, at the same time, a second mine detonated near PCF94, wounding Kerry and knocking an Army advisor on PCF94 into the water. Meanwhile the boats began receiving heavy fire from both sides of the river. Kerry, who had received shrapnel wounds and hurt his right arm, directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire while he pulled the Army advisor back into his boat. PCF 94 then returned to aid PCF 3 and towed the boat down the river to safety. Kerry received the Bronze Star for this action.
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/combat_reports.html
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html
Kerry is bringing this on himself.
Perhaps Dick Morris should have written his book "Re-writing History" about John Kerry.
First Kerry was in Cambodia on Christmas eve, now it was on four separate occasions but not christmas eve, but nobody else will confirm the story.
Next there are now reports that Kerry is changing his story about the firefight that he and his boat were in where he rescued Rassman (dont know if that one is true, so I am holding judgement there).
Kerry keeps putting his foot in his mouth, and all Bush has to do is sit back and let Kerry destroy himself, and he is doing a pretty good job of it.
Kerry tries to explain his positions? By making Vietnam a centerpiece of his campaign, and then complaining when he has to defend his service when questioned by those that served with him? Again, Kerry brought that on himself too.
If you think Bush should be in prison for cocaine use, (which is not a felony for your information), then Kerry should be in prison for war crimes (which could carry the death penalty depending on the severity). What is good for one is good for the other.
"I remember spending Christmas Eve of 1968 five miles across the Cambodian border being shot at by our South Vietnamese allies who were drunk and celebrating Christmas. The absurdity of almost being killed by our own allies in a country in which President Nixon claimed there were no American troops was very real."
-- President Nixon, of course, did not assume office until January of 1969.
On March 27, 1986, during a speech opposing President Reagan's policy in Central America, Senator John Kerry had this to say:
"Mr. President, I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by the Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the president of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which is seared -— seared -— in me, that says to me, before we send another generation into harm's way we have a responsibility in the U.S. Senate to go the last step, to make the best effort possible in order to avoid that kind of conflict."
And again, in a 1992 article by the Associated Press:
"But for Kerry, who spent six violent months commanding a patrol boat on the Mekong River, there's always been a ring of truth to allegations of abandoned Americans. By Christmas 1968, part of Kerry's patrol extended across the border of South Vietnam into Cambodia.
"We were told, `Just go up there and do your patrol. Everybody was over there (in Cambodia). Nobody thought twice about it," Kerry said. One of the missions, which Kerry, at the time, was ordered not to discuss, involved taking CIA operatives into Cambodia to search for enemy enclaves.
"I can remember wondering, `If you're going to go, what happens to you,"' Kerry said.
As recently as May of 2000, U.S. News and World Report stated that, "Sen. John Kerry made his first forays into Cambodia during the Vietnam War as a Navy lieutenant on clandestine missions to deliver weapons to anticommunist forces."
Interestingly, Kerry's Cambodian sojourn, though "seared" into his memory by 1986, somehow failed to rate a mention in Kerry's own contemporary journal.
In "Unfit for Command," authors John O'Neill and Dr. Jerome Corsi document the impossibility of Kerry's story:
Despite the dramatic memories of his Christmas in Cambodia, Kerry’s statements are complete lies. Kerry was never in Cambodia during Christmas 1968, or at all during the Vietnam War. In reality, during Christmas 1968, he was more than fifty miles away from Cambodia. Kerry was never ordered into Cambodia by anyone and would have been court-martialed had he gone there.
During Christmas 1968, Kerry was stationed at Coastal Division 13 in Cat Lo. Coastal Division 13’s patrol areas extended to Sa Dec, about fifty-five miles from the Cambodian border. Areas closer than fifty-five miles to the Cambodian border in the area of the Mekong River were patrolled by PBRs, a small river patrol craft, and not by Swift Boats. Preventing border crossings was considered so important at the time that an LCU (a large, mechanized landing craft) and several PBRs were stationed to ensure that no one could cross the border.
A large sign at the border prohibited entry. Tom Anderson, Commander of River Division 531, who was in charge of the PBRs, confirmed that there were no Swifts anywhere in the area and that they would have been stopped had they appeared.
All the living commanders in Kerry’s chain of command—Joe Streuhli (Commander of CosDiv 13), George Elliott (Commander of CosDiv 11), Adrian Lonsdale (Captain, USCG and Commander, Coastal Surveillance Center at An Thoi), Rear Admiral Roy Hoffmann (Commander, Coastal Surveillance Force Vietnam, CTF 115), and Rear Admiral Art Price (Commander of River Patrol Force, CTF 116)—deny that Kerry was ever ordered to Cambodia. They indicate that Kerry would have been seriously disciplined or court-martialed had he gone there. At least three of the five crewmen on Kerry’s PCF 44 boat—Bill Zaldonis, Steven Hatch, and Steve Gardner—deny that they or their boat were ever in Cambodia. The remaining two crewmen declined to be interviewed for this book. Gardner, in particular, will never forget those days in late December when he was wounded on PCF 44, not in Cambodia, but many miles away in Vietnam.
As part of the supporting documentation given to station managers for our television ad, "Any Questions?" we provided this regarding John Kerry's "Christmas in Cambodia":
The story is a total preposterous fabrication by Kerry. Exhibit 8 is an affidavit by the Commander of the Swift boats in Vietnam, Admiral Roy Hoffmann, stating that Kerry's claim to be in Cambodia for Christmas Eve and Christmas of 1968 is a total lie. If necessary, similar affidavits are available from the entire chain of command. In reality, Kerry was at Sa Dec -- easily locatable on any map more than fifty miles from Cambodia. Kerry himself inadvertently admits that he was in Sa Dec for Christmas Eve and Christmas and not in Cambodia, as he had stated for so many years on the Senate Floor, in the newspapers, and elsewhere. Exhibit 27, Tour, pp. 213-219. Sa Dec is hardly "close" to the Cambodian border. In reality, far from being ordered secretly to Cambodia, Kerry spent a pleasant night at Sa Dec with "visions of sugar plums" dancing in his head. Exhibit 27, p. 219. At Sa Dec where the Swift boat patrol area ended, there were many miles of other boats (PBR's) leading to the Cambodian border. There were also gunboats on the border to prevent any crossing. If Kerry tried to get through, he would have been arrested. Obviously, Kerry has hardly been honest about his service in Vietnam.
John Kerry was never shot at by Khmer Rouge and Cambodians. He never took CIA operatives into Cambodia to search for enemy enclaves. In fact, John Kerry's boat never came within 50 miles of Cambodia at any time.
I'm well aware that possession of cocaine is not a felony, has anyone checked into the possibility that he was also selling? Gee, maybe some of you should get busy on that. He had a couple of DUIs, maybe the cumulative effect of "all" of his crimes would have been prison if his daddy wasn't so powerful. I must admit Bush has a great game plan if you like slime, it's called The best defense is a good offense.
BTW you keep saying his service is a part of Kerry's campaign, how come it
seems to be the only thing in Bush's campaign. Could it be he doesn't have a single accomplishment worthy of hanging his stetson on?
I saw Matthews last night and never saw him so biased before... for some behind the curtain insights take a look over at http://michellemalkin.com/archives/000418.htm
But just to be fair to Chris, few days back when they were analyzing ads from both sides Chris said "Bush is better than his ads and Kerry's ads are better than him". ALso he had the author of the book "Soldiers story" or something like that, you must know who I am talking about. He was very respectfull even though he was pro Bush and pro Iraq war. If he was partisan he would not even air all that.
I agree. There is nothing on his record that indicates that he served dishonourably or was a coward (just 30 year old word of mouth accounts by people who's political affiliations are no secret). If we are going to try and disect every single event that happened back then we should be questionning the records and digging up old contacts and medical records of MANY other medal recipients and veterans of days gone by. Frankly, the US military is a little too medal happy anyway. I'm surprised there isn't one for sewing on your badges straight.
About this whole hero bullcrap. What is it about Americans that they want to turn everything and everyone into an "American Hero". Every time you turn around, Americans finding some way to manufacture or promote a "True American Hero" - cue the stirring music and fluttering flags (this is on both sides, left and right). Really, it's incredibly ridiculous. Suffice to say that Kerry served in Vietnam like thousands of others in his generation. Got some medals and a few wounds like thousands of others in his generation, came back idealistic and disillusioned like thousands of others of his generation. Did some "heroic" deeds and probably some not so "heroic" deeds like thousands of others. He didn't get any official or written black marks of any consequence on his record. Does this make him a hero or just a good/typical citzen of his generation?
Why the drive to turn him (or Bush) into some kind of hero? Don't you know that heros only exist in comic books and in the movies? It's dangerous to maufacture heroes out of human beings. They have a long way to fall when knocked off the pedestal and quite frankly, it's distracting from the matters at hand....governing the country. And being America, having your finger in every pie across the globe.
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I agree. GW Bush's past is NOTHING to be proud of. In fact, it is shameful. Perhaps by questioning (or tolerating this questioning) of Kerry's youth he is diverting attention away from his own.
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Right. I thought it was the incumbant that was supposed to be on the defensive, defending his record, not the other way around. But that's this administration for you (this seems to be a favourite Republican tactic....find a Veteran who disagrees with you then start trashing his military record or his loyalty, or both.). If you don't have a good argument or position just sling some unrelated sh*t around to distract the masses. With any luck, November will roll around and people will still be all caught up in this bullcrap (or something just as irrelivant like Theresa HK having opinons of her own etc...).
Quite frankly, if the Republicans left Kerry's service in Vietnam alone (like the Dems have left Bush's past reputation as a hard drinking, coke sniffing, drug taking, lazy and pampered party animal alone) I think this whole thing would be over and people would be talking about WHAT REALLY MATTERS. The issues facing America today and possible solutions (and yes....Bush's record - but the Reps don't want that do they?). It's the Repuclicans that are keeping Kerry's war record in the news NOT the other way around.
Edited 8/20/2004 5:22 pm ET ET by suemox
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