What will you do if Bush wins?

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-20-2004
What will you do if Bush wins?
841
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 12:02pm
I would like to know what you all will do if Bush wins? I don't know if I can handle another 4 years. Any ideas of how to reclaim our country and restore democracy and freedom? I'm worried that another 4 years will increase the authoritariansm and absolute power that Bush has come to claim and further trample on our constitution and individual liberties. I'm truly frightened.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-18-2004
Sun, 08-29-2004 - 12:32pm
Sorry about that, but yes, part of my job is to greet everyone, preferably personally.

Miffy - Co-CL For The Politics Today Board

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Miffy - Co-CL For The Politics Today Board

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 08-29-2004 - 12:35pm
A) start adopting some of these unwanted children in America, and B) get involved in something productive, like protesting against the epidemic of child neglect and abuse that runs rampant in America.

This comes from www.abortionfacts.com...

OK, the ethic is horrible, but unwanted pregnancies do result in unwanted children, don’t they?

No, not in any greater percentage than wanted pregnancies.

Think of your own pregnancies. Was each planned, or was this or that one a surprise? Were you really happy each time, in the first month or two? Be honest.

In the first few weeks or months, were all of your pregnancies really "wanted"?

But now look at your children. Are you glad you have them? Would you give any back — have any of them killed?

You’ve changed your mind, haven’t you? For almost all of you, a pregnancy that was truly unwanted has resulted in a dearly loved and wanted son or daughter.

If we permit abortion for an unwanted pregnancy, we will be destroying vast numbers of children who, by the time of their birth and through their childhood, would have been very dearly wanted and deeply loved children indeed. If the judgment of being wanted at an early stage of pregnancy were a final judgment, and abortions were permitted freely, a high percentage of everyone reading this book would never have been born.

How many unwanted pregnancies are there?

Some claims are clearly ridiculous. TIME Magazine claimed there were at least 6 million unwanted pregnancies in the U.S. each year. TIME, Feb. 26, 1990, p. 94

In that year there were 4 million births, about 1.6 million abortions, plus about 400,000 miscarriages. According to TIME’s claim, every pregnancy that year was unwanted.

Are there any scientific studies?

Not many recent ones because now abortion is legal in most developed nations which are the ones that do such studies.

Back in the ’50s and ’60s, there were a good dozen well done studies which were reported in detail in your author’s editions of Handbook on Abortion in the ’70s.

All of these presumed the negative effects claimed above. They matched groups of pregnant women . . . (1) who wanted abortions, couldn’t get them and went on to deliver . . . and (2) women pleased with wanted pregnancies. These investigators studied the resultant children and compared them. Without exception, they found little difference in love, care and wantedness and of neglect and lack of care in the groups that were compared.

Give a few examples.

Dr. Ferriera found no relationship between unplanned pregnancies and newborn deviant behavior. In fact, there were more deviant babies of mothers who had planned their pregnancy than those who had not. A. J. Ferriera, "The Pregnant Woman’s Emotional Attitude and Its Reflection in the Newborn." Amer. Jour. Orthopsychiatry, vol. 30, 1960, p. 553

"There is a contention that unwanted conceptions tend to have undesirable effects . . . the direct evidence for such a relationship is almost completely lacking, except for a few fragments of retrospective evidence. It was the hope of this article to find more convincing systematic research evidence and to give some idea of the amount of relationship between unwanted conception and undesired effect on children. This hope has been disappointed." E. Pohlman, "Unwanted Conception, Research on Undesirable Consequences," Eugenics Quarterly, vol. 14, 1967, p. 143

"It is clear that mothers who initially believed their pregnancy to be ‘the worst thing that ever happened to them’ came to feel about the same degree of affection for their children as the mothers who were initially ‘ecstatic’ about the pregnancy.

"Most women who were most regretful of the pregnancy now claim they would have the child again if given the opportunity one of every six mothers who were initially pleased with pregnancy would choose not to have the child again. " . . . initial feelings about pregnancy are predictive of how a mother will eventually feel about her child to only a very limited degree." P. Cameron et al., "How Much do Mothers Love Their Children," Rocky Mt. Psychological Assn., May 12, 1972

Others have conclusively demonstrated a spontaneous change from prepartum rejection to postpartum acceptance of their children by a group of mothers. M. Zemlich & R. Watson, "Attitudes of Acceptance and Rejection During and After Pregnancy," Amer. Jour. Orthopsychiatry, vol. 23, 1953, p. 570

I’ve been told that aborting unwanted babies would leave more wanted ones and, therefore, there would be less child abuse.

Exactly the opposite has happened. In New York City during the ’60s, the number of abused children had averaged about 5,000 cases a year. Abortion was legalized in 1970. By 1975, over 25,000 cases were reported. The figures for the entire U.S. are:

Date Total Number

1973 167,000

1979 711,142

1993 1,057,255

1996 1,220,000

U.S. Dept. H.H.S., Nat. Center of Child Abuse,Child Maltreatment 259

Canada’s statistics show the same:

Year Abortions Child Abuse

1971 16,172 422

1978 38,782 1,762

1994 104,403 30,366*

Child Welfare Branch, Ministry of Human Resource, Ontario, Canada *These are the totals reported from all provinces except PEI and includes physical,sexual,and emotional abuse. Note that provinces vary in definition of "child abuse" and reporting requirements.

Ohio reported 27,248 cases in 1981 and 65,965 in 1985, a 142% increase according to a survey by the U.S. House of Representatives Select Committee on Children, Families and Youth for the largest state increase. The same survey reported over a 55% increase nationwide from 1981 to 1985. Assoc. Press, March 3, 1987.

D r. Phillip Ney, Professor of Psychiatry at the University of Christ Church, New Zealand, while still at the University of British Columbia, published a widely read study of this. His analysis clearly pointed to the fact that abortion (and its acceptance of the violence of killing the unborn) lowered a parent’s psychic resistance to violence and abuse of the born. P. Ney, "Relationship Between Abortion & Child Abuse," Canada Jour. Psychiatry, vol. 24, 1979, pp. 610-620

A nation and its people will ultimately be judged not by the fact that there are unwanted ones among them, but by what is done for them.



iVillage Member
Registered: 08-05-2004
Sun, 08-29-2004 - 12:39pm
Well I think as long as people don't litter and help pick up that litter and recycles that'd even help. As long as people don't just be lazy with everything. Start small and work up. :) RECYCLE. XOXO.
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-23-2004
Sun, 08-29-2004 - 12:48pm


No, I do my homework and only donate to those charities where I know most of the money goes toward the intended cause-like the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation, or my local women's shelter. How much of your tax dollars do you think actually go to helping people who really need help? Talk about your overhead...



It actually IS communist-that's the definition of communism, that money earned is spread around equally to all. Entry level people make entry level salaries-those who choose to educate themselves, work hard and rise through the ranks make more. People with proven abilities to grow businesses and make lots of money for the company, make lots of money for themselves as well. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, IMO. I suppose you believe the guy who sweeps the floor at Madison Square Garden ought to make the same amount as the NBA players who drive the ticket sales. That's called communism, my friend, and it's been proven to result in low productivity, a disaffected and unmotivated labor force, and social unrest. Why? Because it's fundamentally unfair to expect those who work hard and are successful at what they do to subsidize those who don't.



Real wages are driven by supply and demand of workers, and therefore DO keep up with inflation. Most people making minimum wages are enbtry level workers just startingout in the work force, or students or others working part time making supplemental income. Very few people in this country who are legally documented, full time workers are making minimum wage for very long in this country, that's a simple fact.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-05-2004
Sun, 08-29-2004 - 12:49pm
So do you think Gore was supposed to win instead of Bush and his people did something for him to win? :\ Would the votes count? XOXO.
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-27-2004
Sun, 08-29-2004 - 1:00pm
Perhaps Clinton did not send troops anywhere for his "mishap", but its still disgusting and a desecration of the American Presidency. And if he did had done it somewhere ofther than in the White House, yes it would be only his family's issue, but he dragged the entire country into it when he decided to act less than expected of an American President in the Oval Office. About war crimes on part of Bush, what exactly are you talking about, which war crimes? No, Saddam is not the only evil dictator in the world but he is the one who had already given us reason to consider him a threat. He stalled when the inspectors went in, which caused even more suspicion. Also, after 9/11 everything was changed, we had to go on the defense, and there HAVE been findings of ties between Hussein and Al-Quaida. That is a good reason in itself to have gone to war to remove Hussein from power and diminishing any threat he was to us and the rest of the world. What other options do you think could have been employed to rid the world of S.H.? Should we just have let him remain in power, with him knowing already that we were vulnerable after the 9/11 tragedies? IF Bush would not have stood up for the US the way he did, more countries would have attempted more attacks. Bush showed the world that we would not just be sitting ducks. And again, soldiers KNOW the risk of war going into the military. Protecting the country and its interests is the sole purpose of the armed forces.
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-29-2004
Sun, 08-29-2004 - 1:06pm
For whatever reason, I'm not that scared. Perhaps I'm just confident that he won't get re-elected. But as someone once said to me, "the upside of him being re-elected is that he never will be able to again." This response is a little inadequate, I know, but I do understand how you feel. Just hang in there; the rotten have a way of destroying themselves.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 08-29-2004 - 1:11pm
Why are you so defensive? It was a simple question. I was curious.

What I do is shop from a company that makes ALMOST all natural enviromentally friendly and family safe products. Everything you can imagaine that you use in your home, they make. I also help others become customers of this company and spread the word about how unsafe and poisionous grocery store products are. I just need to know that when people are complaining about our environment that they are recycling, reusing, and not buying products like Tide and Bleach. I have been called a tree hugger many times. Good for you for doing your part. I don't think that the President can do it all by himself.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-21-2004
Sun, 08-29-2004 - 1:24pm
Grown:

I have little doubt in my mind that things of an illegal, unethical manner were done to put Bush in the Whitehouse, but sadly it will be years after I am dead and gone before the sealed records pave way to the truth of that matter. Even the Supreme Courts decision reeked of underhanded politics under the best of interpretations. What worries me at the moment, is this election is shaping up currently to be just as close, and do not think the unrepresented majority this time around will take it laying down if Bush is placed into office instead of being elected into office.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-21-2004
Sun, 08-29-2004 - 1:31pm
A nice piece of pro-life propaganda, but does not stand muster.

Do you think that lady in Texas who drowned her kids wanted them? Do you think that lady that abandoned seven American kids in South Africa wanted them? How many stories have we read of young mothers not ready for the responsibility who have killed the new born babies and dumped them in a dumpster. I could go on, but you get the picture.

Additionally, if you start factoring in abortions as real live births in this nation, we would very quickly have a population explosion of frightening numbers, and as is it we are already over burdening the supply of natural resources available for human consumption in this world. Like it or not, we need more birth control, not less of it.

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