What will you do if Bush wins?

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-20-2004
What will you do if Bush wins?
841
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 12:02pm
I would like to know what you all will do if Bush wins? I don't know if I can handle another 4 years. Any ideas of how to reclaim our country and restore democracy and freedom? I'm worried that another 4 years will increase the authoritariansm and absolute power that Bush has come to claim and further trample on our constitution and individual liberties. I'm truly frightened.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 08-21-2004
Mon, 08-30-2004 - 9:34am
Excuse me, but a MAJOR principle of our constitution and its various amendments is to protect the rights and beliefs of the minority.

Furthermore, at various time throughout history, societal norms for various reasons shift, and as those norms shift, what was right or legal today can become illegal tomorrow and vice versa...prohibition being the most notable and recognizable example of this reality.

You bring up for instance polygamy...because of the churches doctrines, that practice became illegal. However, today we are beginning to see a shift in societal beliefs towards the concept of monogamy. There is an entire group of Americans who not only embrace a life choice and relationship choice on having more than one partner, but these people are proving it is not only possible but healthy to allow ourselves the inborn ability to love and be in love with more than one person. I for instance could suggest you go to the Loving More website to read more about this. Attitudes towards and about homesexuality are changing, and it is only a matter of time before the tide tips in favor of finally granting this group of citizens full rights and protections under the law. Any one who is not totally blind realizes the dramatic shift in the acceptance of Interacial Relationships as one of the changing markets of what is accepted and considered to be one of societal norms.

Good bad or ugly, certain beliefs for a period of time become more widely accepted than they were, and if that acceptance spreads and grows broad enough, it usually sees said new norm in some fashion written into law, but IS THIS REALLY A GOOD THING? You say that the label Religious Right is a Red Herring, but is it? Fact of the matter is, that it is the church and Born Again Christian Dogma that is right now driving a lot of the devision in our country...from my perspective, it seems they are wanting to cling to a past and a set or norms that are slowly shifting and not working for an ever growing number of our citizens, and so you have one side demanding change while the other side is attempting to codify into law protections that would maintain the status quo.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-18-2004
Mon, 08-30-2004 - 9:37am

Hi Jennifer_Heinz!


Welcome to the board!

Miffy - Co-CL For The Politics Today Board

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-21-2004
Mon, 08-30-2004 - 9:49am
For starters, think you are attacking my thinking processes wrongly...I for one would be the first to argue that people should not have children they cannot afford. In fact, I take it a step further and feel that various laws and work place prejudices in favor of the family unit create a situation of a defacto descrimination against sing/married with no children individuals.

The point I was and am still making, is that many good paying jobs are being replaced with jobs that do not pay a living wage...the corporate trend for years now has been to eliminate and downsize as many perks as possible, and to overall lower the pay-scale of the American worker through whatever means is possible. Walmart for instance as a general practice makes its employees clock out, but work an additional 30-60 minutes on every shift...yes, this is anedotal on my part, but I have no reason to suspect the dozen or people I have spoken with who are employed by Walmart are lying to me. I live in the NY area, and certain expenses are higher than in other places. For example, if you have to take the train into Manhattan you are looking at a daily round trip expense of 28.00 from the suburbs. So, if someone had the chance to work at say Star Bucks at starting wage of $6.40 and hour for an eight hour shift, even before the government takes their share out of the check, a worker earning $51.20 for the shift is down to 23.20 gross just in absorbing transportation costs. Now, we know for a fact that right off of the top the government is going to take 6.5 percent for Social Security contributions, then you have here in NY a one percent unemployment/workers compensation fee, and you can pretty well count on another IRS hit of at least ten percent. There are a few other small hits to said gross pay, so lets call the total deductions pie 20 percent or a daily deduction for ones tax burden of $10.24 This now means in pocket, said worker for an eight hour shift has earned in real disposable income $12.96. Such a reality amounts to defacto slave labor, and yet you seem to contend that said out of work person should take the job that is offered to them? Please notice in this equation I did not factor in ANY CHILDCARE COSTS.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-28-2004
Mon, 08-30-2004 - 10:09am
I will put a "DON'T BLAME ME, I VOTED FOR KERRY" bumper sticker on my car and go about my business. Let the Bush voters take some responsibility for being blind enough to follow this dimwitted good ole boy.
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-23-2003
Mon, 08-30-2004 - 11:30am
Excuse me while I barf.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 08-30-2004 - 11:32am
***I do though have serious problems with the very real fact that families feel those of us without kids (married with no children, and/or single) in some way owe it to the American family unit to sacrifice for their behalf. You cannot tell me it is fair that I have to pay the same school taxes with no kids that a neighbor with ten kids pays. Does not take a rocket scientist to see who is getting the bargain out of the deal.

It is very important to support you local schools and community. You are giving your money to the very children that you will have to vote for one day. Those children attending those schools that you don't want to support are the same children that will grow up and become your judges, mayor, govenor, doctor, congressmen, senator and so and so on. You don't see parents who send their children to private schools complaining about paying taxes that go to public schools. At least I never have. Also, some of these children attending public schools may be getting their one and only hot meal a day at school. You are paying for that. I feel that that is all worth it. You will probably be saving yourself lots of tax money going to healthcare by keeping these children nurished and healthy. What goes around comes around, no matter how many kids you have. I am sorry that you cannot have kids but you are very willing to not support them or let them live. Maybe you should adopt a child. They are out there waiting for you. They do change your political views but don't be scared of that.

Also, how much would it cost us to have someone figure out who has how many kids, who should be paying how much, whose kids aren't in school yet, whose kids go to private school, so on and so forth. That would probably cost you more money than you are complaining about.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 08-30-2004 - 11:42am
Well Venus, I wasn't aware we had a population problem. If we don't fight terrorism then we won't have to worry about the population getting out of hand. They will just continue to kill us whenever they want. How does that sound?

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-21-2004
Mon, 08-30-2004 - 11:59am
With all due respect, we already have that information easily at hand...it's called a Federal Tax Return. What for instance would be so wrong in say having a Federal School Tax of X amount per child currently attending a public school...we could make an exemption for those whose children are in private schools, and it would additionally be a means by which to discourage illegal aliens from coming into our country. Why not for instance issue vouchers based upon your claims on your Federal Tax Return...no voucher, no access to public education. Curious here, how many illegal aliens would be rushing across our southern border would cease coming over the border if we suddenly cut off their free access to this all important FREE SOCIAL SERVICE?

I have no kids, but would be willing to say make a base contribution to education. Everyone could make that base contribution, and then the total amount of tax would be on a sliding scale based upon how many children you had in the system. This plan would additionally have the potential of giving elderly Americans more disposable income, as their own tax burdens to support the educational system would decline as their own children grew up, graduated and moved into their own adult lives.

The issue is not about supporting education, but about fairly financing it.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-21-2004
Mon, 08-30-2004 - 12:02pm
With all due respect, you cannot totally ignore other problems while dealing with one problem. If you own a house that has a cockroach problem and a leaky roof, you are in serious trouble spending all your money dealing with the cockroaches while your roof caves in around you.
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-12-2004
Mon, 08-30-2004 - 12:14pm
I'd have to disagree. I hope President Bush gets re-elected. I think he has done a lot for our country in its darkest hours. I don't think that John Kerry would have even come close.

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