What will you do if Bush wins?

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-20-2004
What will you do if Bush wins?
841
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 12:02pm
I would like to know what you all will do if Bush wins? I don't know if I can handle another 4 years. Any ideas of how to reclaim our country and restore democracy and freedom? I'm worried that another 4 years will increase the authoritariansm and absolute power that Bush has come to claim and further trample on our constitution and individual liberties. I'm truly frightened.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 08-21-2004
Wed, 09-01-2004 - 11:19am
Hi There:

First, a very well written and informative post...it would be my hope that some of those on the Republican side of the arguements here would actually read it and take it to heart but I fear they are too caught up in their blind allegiance to Bush to hear you or any other voice of reason.

I have made the very troop strength arguement you are making, though coming at it from a slightly different slant. I encouraged them to visit the stars and stripes site, as well as the official Pentagon site, and if you study the site, the signs of an impending reinstitution of the draft is looming every larger because the military is predicting VERY serious problems in both troop retention as well as enlistment quotas of new soldiers. It has gotten so bad in fact, that the individual services to meet their own quotas are trying to steal away re-enlistments from the other branches in an almost classic example of preying on your own.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-21-2004
Wed, 09-01-2004 - 11:23am
Taking the pro-life arguements to their NATURAL conclusion, an egg unfertilized or not is a life, a baby waiting for its chance and opportunity to be born. Now, if that is so, are not all pro-life advocates that use birth control then guilty of murdering babies? You cannot have it both ways, so if you are seriously so pro-life, then think the only just and prudent thing to do, is not use birth control, not allow rubbers during sexual intimacies, because you are taking away that eggs rights to become a baby, a new life in this world.
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2004
Wed, 09-01-2004 - 11:28am
Welcome the to the board beemer55!

Renee ~~~

Renee ~~~

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-31-2004
Wed, 09-01-2004 - 11:38am
"Well Donna, if someone is concerned about becoming pregnant and maybe needing an abortion, then she needs to be responsible and take her birth control. And if someone is even more responsible and protecting herself from STD's she would also be using a condom. You can get those free as well. If you are not being responsible, then that should be too bad for you. And that goes for ANY situation in life."

While in theory I agree, there are situations which do not allow for this. For instance, my little sister was raped at the age of 14. Fortunately neither pregnancy nor physical illness resulted from this horrific experience, but what would you have had her do if she had become pregnant?

baby siggy
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-31-2004
Wed, 09-01-2004 - 11:38am
Let me clarify something. I realize, reading a few posts, that saying I have seen the casualties led you to believe I am an active duty person: I can't be more specific about what I do, except to say that I am a technical writer for the Navy, but what I should have said was I have seen records of the casualties. In my haste, I seem to have mislead you. I would NOT want to have seen these casualties in the flesh. I don't want people thinking I have served my country in Iraq. I "serve" from California, and what we do is try to make sure the people who DO serve stay safe and receive excellent medical care.

I am heartened by the responses. People do boil elections down to very personal issues, but I hope the larger picture is also visible. A for instance, in a What Is Democracy kind of discussion: I was thinking last night, as a friend confided something very personal, that I would not want to ever have an abortion. I would not choose to, ever, for personal, not theological, reasons. But as a woman, I can understand how circumstances in people's lives could make it so they had no other choice. I don't want to get into a discussion about this. Everyone has a right to their opinions on it. But here's what makes a democracy: I don't want this for myself, but I want it available for those who need it and want it. The same is true for Public Assistance. I don't need it myself right now, but I want it in place for those who are struggling more than I am, and I am willing to pay taxes to include that kind of compassion in my country. I don't want anyone to abuse any of our privileges, but I want them available. If I belong to an organized church, do I balk at offerings that go to serve others? I do not want to marry a woman, I have a husband who is plenty for me, but I want my best friend from college, who is a lesbian, to be able to legally and financially and medically protect herself and her family, including the woman she loves very much. How does it hurt me to want for her what I take for granted? How does it hurt anyone? Does it make my marriage less sacred? Sacredness is seen with the soul and heart, not with the pocketbook or the political agenda. It is far more important to me THAT we love, not WHO we love.

I'm not saying I gleefully pay my taxes, I try to pay only what I feel I owe, but I pay them knowing that it's the only way to reapportion income, pay for services, etc. I am rather tired of Republicans using taxes as "bribes". You may have received a $1000 tax return, but I can assure you it is like credit: you will pay much more of that back over the years. It's is a sleight of hand, something to make you like them, in effect. Isn't anyone else tired of the pose? Democrats raise taxes? Come on. Everyone has to balance a budget. The money has to come from somewhere.

The point I'm trying to make here is, Democracy is not only about what you need, but about what the "ecosystem" of a larger population may need. We need to incorporate, in the sense of, "bring into the body", the body being us, all of us, as a unit. Nature works on a balance of forces, and as part of that, we do, too. What we sorely need is to bring our community back into balance. What I mean is, first and foremost, the balance of masculine and feminine realms. Don't hang up, stay with me.

Masculine and feminine energies govern different things; the female in nature is equipped to defend by her sharp senses and instincts; the male defends by muscular strength; if anyone read the cover article in Parade this week, it was all there: a coach in Baltimore was teaching his boys to become men by asking what they could do for others, to love one another, while playing football (and winning): he believes that most of our social problems are tied to the myths we give boys about what makes them men. I have noticed this for years. Socially, they think they must climb to the top by collecting money, things, attractive women, etc. Where are they spiritually? What feeds their souls? He introduces what is in effect, the feminine, to them. The emotive aspect of our lives. Both energies are absolutely necessary to surviving WELL. We can survive without love and compassion and hope and mercy, but not terribly well.

So our culture has been in the grips of this social/spiritual funk for some time, in the pursuit of preeminence, even hegemony, over those who have what we want, both within our borders and without. It has perhaps not been a single-minded pursuit, but all in all, not very balanced. The feminine made her appearance in the 60s, and maybe 70s, (think of the emphasis placed on BEING, talking, feeling) but the balance slipped away again when we were threatened by the hostage crisis in Iran. We then entered formally into the next phase of our tangle with the Muslim nations, of which we know more now, though still not enough. Theirs is a VERY male-centered religion, from what I've observed. I want to say here that I am not AGAINST male energy: it is absolutely necesssary. It is the force that says DO versus the force that says BE. We need both. I like to think I pay attention to both within myself.

I believe the pendulum keeps swinging. With the stress of our present lives, the feminine is swinging back into play, people are talking about meditating, yoga, taking time for their families, etc. For me, the way my politics dovetail with my other belief systems is that I want the most prosperity and goodness for the most people. I'm sorry, I don't see that coming out of conservative policies. I see and feel fear and hatred and exclusion, an almost paternal disapproval of difference and many God Bless thises and God Bless thats, which all sounds a bit hollow in the wake of the utter selfishness and cutthroat campaigning...don't get me started on the separation of church and state. Let me say one final thing about this. In my observation of the life of Jesus, I concluded that if he were here today, he would be with the weak, the downtrodden, the castaways. He would be striding in Pride parades, he would be in polling stations where black voters are turned away, he would be on the side of everyone our great and prosperous nation chooses to turn a blind eye to. He would be saying, Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone A LOT. If Jesus is indeed George Bush's savior, he's gonna have a lot of explaining to do.

It is, really, about love, and the many things it inspires the best in us to bring forth into the world. Do unto others, you know?

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2004
Wed, 09-01-2004 - 11:41am

Hi itsjuslove! Welcome to the board.

Renee ~~~

Renee ~~~

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2004
Wed, 09-01-2004 - 11:47am
Welcome to the board iv_jrenee!

Renee ~~~

Renee ~~~

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 09-01-2004 - 12:02pm
LOL! An egg is not a life! Go do your research and you'll see that life begins at conception. If one is not ovulating, then one cannot concieve. Also, I was specifically stating to Kara, who was concerned that she may become pregnant one day that she has many options to avoid that. A)Birth control B)Condoms and C)Abstinence



iVillage Member
Registered: 08-21-2004
Wed, 09-01-2004 - 12:06pm
As for what people should do of course you are right. Unfortunately what people should do and what they do do are very different. People should not be raped, should not have serious complications when they are pregnant, should not be impregnated by fathers and brothers, uncles and grandfathers at young ages. People should all be responsible. But we all know the world doesn't work that way and we can't just stand by and say "too bad" when these very human albeit ulgly and irresponsible things occur. That is why abortion is legal and has been for 35 years or so.
Donna
Avatar for angel32982
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-22-2003
Wed, 09-01-2004 - 12:33pm
Trust me, I have already done an immense amount of research on each of the presidential canidates, even Cobb(green party), and Ralph Nadar. I am as of yet, not happy with any of them, the only thing that I know for sure, is that I am not voting for Bush.


Kara




Off Point: That's interesting that you used to go to a Unitarian Society. I'm an Atheist, and a Co-Chair of a group on campus (I'm a grad student) and we will very likely be visiting a Unitarian Society this year as a field trip.

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