What will you do if Bush wins?

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-20-2004
What will you do if Bush wins?
841
Fri, 08-20-2004 - 12:02pm
I would like to know what you all will do if Bush wins? I don't know if I can handle another 4 years. Any ideas of how to reclaim our country and restore democracy and freedom? I'm worried that another 4 years will increase the authoritariansm and absolute power that Bush has come to claim and further trample on our constitution and individual liberties. I'm truly frightened.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 11-13-2003
Thu, 09-02-2004 - 12:50pm


LOL!

Refutation of your own words that I re-posted above my response, incuding citation of my source.

You're preaching to us that the unborn baby is essentially a collection of human tissue, nothing more, to be disposed of at will (by "choice"), while espousing election of a candidate who has made it his business to convince others that the unborn child can feel, think, and communicate.

Anybody but Bush, eh?

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-02-2004
Thu, 09-02-2004 - 2:24pm
Personally, I am one to promote the ascertion that responsibility for agreeing or disagreeing with a posters opinions or perported facts lays with the reader, and have always been impressed when I see someone post provable facts to refute another posters ascertions. In short, I give the poster the benefit of the doubt, or I do my own work of investigating the claims therein, rather than expecting them to do my work for me.

It is true that sometimes events are shaped by ones own perceptions fo them, clouded by their own prejudices concerning the topic, and so may in truth not be a completely accurate portrayal of what occured....but, should it then not be the responsibility of an individual to research and investigate on their own, rather than rely on a writer to post a link to something that more than likely is going to be at least in some fashion skewed to support their own version of the truth?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 09-02-2004 - 2:31pm
"A baby unborn is not a baby. Ask a doctor. An unborn fetus cannot live outside its mother until the later stages of pregnancy and some not even then. A baby has no past experiences, it does not have personhood yet. A woman does."

**I would dare you to go ask several Dr's. I'm sure you would get different answers, and not only between those with a pro-religion stance and an anti-one. I one believed this too, until I started saving the lives of children born before term. When 23 week baby can survive outside the womb, albeit with assistance, they most certainly are a baby. A human life.

Very well said Alicia2210. It's also a fact that an unborn baby has 46 chromosomes (in most cases) and is considered a human being.

I have been pregnant 4 times and my doctor has always called my babies, babies. Even when I miscarried, they were babies. When my sister in law had to give birth to a stillborn, it was most definetely a baby that I saw. I guess you have to keep telling yourself they weren't babies to help you deal with the fact that you participated in the death of your own grandbabies (if I read that correctly, I was kinda is shock when I read your post). And like alicia2210 said, they do have experiences, they "breath", suck their thumbs, kick their legs and move their arms, they can hear and open their eyes and do flips. They do most of the same things newborn babies do.

And I have a question to someone who might know. If abortion is made illegal, do you think the morning after pill will be too? It does work just the same as most modern birth control methods used by women all over the world. It prevents implantation and not conception (like lots of birth control). It seems like it would be hard to argue that point. This would leave an option for a rape victim but would have to be used within 5 days of the rape. Maybe that would help people come forward with rape, but then again it could be start of lots of "lies". Anyone know about the morning after pill?

TIA

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-02-2004
Thu, 09-02-2004 - 2:38pm
*****Maybe if people were forced to pay for more things themselves, they would think twice before making "human mistakes." *******

I've always been amused at this arguement. Perhaps the largest consumer of free services is the American Family. They expect others to subsidize their desire or religious beliefs to have large families by demanding tax breaks when it comes time to file their 1040 each year. They do not think it unfair that those with no kids pay large sums of money each year to support the school system, and are not willing to admit that a tax based on a pay as you go system would be far fairer and more equitable.

Using your analogy above, should not we as a nation be more prepared to embrace laws and statutes that do not so quickly reward large families? Various statistics show that the world wide birth rate is out of control, and that we (Even in America) need to rein in our birth rate if we are going to have a sustainable base of natural resources. Would a family insist on having say seven children if they knew that instead of a tax break, they were going to have to rightfully pay a tax commiserate with and in line with the actual social services usage such a large family unit puts on the overall system? Would not a system of taxation that required you to be fiscally responsible in family planning make a lot more sense?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 09-02-2004 - 2:43pm
"More single mothers on welfare (if their parents don't support them) we don't need. I don't want to pay for them, do you?"


Mother's on welfare could also get free birth control and condoms can't they???????

Also, you talked about unwanted pregnancies cause unwanted babies or child abuse and we've argued that point already. IT'S JUST NOT TRUE!! Do some research.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-12-2001
Thu, 09-02-2004 - 2:48pm
I think you need to direct your response to Donna, not me. It is her post with which you are disagreeing.

Bev

girl in chair
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-12-2001
Thu, 09-02-2004 - 2:51pm
Hi again Mystic Dreamer (in your new incarnation)!

Hey, sounds good to me. I'm not Catholic so I've never believed in having large families anyway. ;-)

Bev

girl in chair
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-02-2004
Thu, 09-02-2004 - 2:56pm
I'm not adverse to people having large families, feel if that is their choice, they should be allowed to do so. I am though firmly against them having no problems in expecting the rest of us to subsidize their choice.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 09-02-2004 - 3:39pm
Sorry bev, I enjoy your posts. I think I responded to a post that you respoded to from her. My apologies!!!!!
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-12-2001
Thu, 09-02-2004 - 3:43pm
No prob. Hey, with close to 800 posts in this thing, it's getting kind of tough to keep track of who said what!

Bev

girl in chair

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