More evidence supports Kerry's version

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
More evidence supports Kerry's version
8
Wed, 08-25-2004 - 12:51pm
The Associated Press

Updated: 11:55 a.m. ET Aug. 25, 2004

WASHINGTON - The Navy task force overseeing John Kerry’s swift boat squadron in Vietnam reported that his group of boats came under enemy fire during a March 13, 1969, incident that three decades later is being challenged by the Democratic presidential nominee’s critics.

The March 18, 1969, weekly report from Task Force 115, which was located by The Associated Press during a search of Navy archives, is the latest document to surface that supports Kerry’s description of an event for which he won a Bronze Star and a third Purple Heart.

The Task Force report twice mentions the incident five days earlier and both times calls it “an enemy initiated firefight” that included automatic weapons fire and underwater mines used against a group of five boats that included Kerry’s.

Task Force 115 was commanded at the time by retired Rear Adm. Roy Hoffmann, the founder of the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which has been running ads challenging Kerry’s account of the episode.

A member of the group, Larry Thurlow, said Tuesday he stood by his assertion that there was no enemy fire that day. Thurlow, the commander of another boat who also won a Bronze Star, said task force commanders probably relied on the initial report of the incident. Thurlow says Kerry wrote that report.

The document, part of thousands of pages of records housed at the Naval Historical Center, is one of several that say Kerry and other servicemen were shot at from the banks of the Bay Hap River on March 13, 1969. The Associated Press located the document Tuesday during a search of available records.



Earlier this month, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth aired a television ad claiming Kerry lied about the circumstances surrounding his medals. Several members of the group who were aboard nearby boats that March 13 said in the ad and in affidavits that there was no enemy gunfire during the incident.

The anti-Kerry group has not produced any official Navy documents supporting that claim, however. The man Kerry rescued, Jim Rassmann, and the crew of Kerry’s boat all say there was gunfire from both banks of the river at the time.

Meanwhile, Benjamin Ginsberg, a lawyer for the Bush campaign, acknowledged Tuesday that he has given legal advice to the anti-Kerry group. Ginsberg said he never told the Bush campaign what he discussed with the group or vice versa, and doesn’t advise the group on ad strategies.

The Kerry campaign has filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission accusing the Bush campaign and the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth of illegally coordinating the group’s ads. The Bush campaign and the veterans group say there was no coordination.

Kerry is the subject of complaints by the Bush campaign and the Republican National Committee accusing his campaign of illegally coordinating anti-Bush ads with outside groups on the Democratic side, allegations he and the groups deny.

Kerry has denounced the assertions from Swift Boat Veterans for Truth as lies made as part of a Republican smear campaign. Most of the group’s members and early financial backers are Republicans and one member who appeared in an ad, Ken Cordier, was a volunteer member of the Bush campaign. The campaign cut its ties with Cordier last week.

President Bush has said his campaign had nothing to do with the veterans group and said all such advertising by outside groups should cease. An anti-Bush group has run television ads saying Bush shirked his duty in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam war.

Kerry highlighted his Vietnam service during the Democratic convention last month, recounting the March 13 incident and having Rassmann join him on stage.

On that day in 1969, Kerry’s PCF-94 was part of a five-boat group heading downriver. An underwater mine exploded underneath another boat, PCF-3, injuring its entire crew. Kerry’s boat was then hit by another explosion that knocked Rassmann, an Army Green Beret, into the water. Kerry hurt his right arm in the explosion.

Kerry turned his boat around to rescue Rassmann, pulling the soldier into the boat with his injured right arm, while the other boats rushed to help PCF-3. All the official Navy reports on the incident say the boats were under heavy fire from the riverbanks at the time. Those records include the official after-action report, citations for Bronze Stars awarded for heroism that day and now the Task Force 115 report.

The weekly report cites the incident twice, referring to its code name of Sea Lords 358. The first reference says the boats “encountered an enemy initiated firefight with water mines and automatic weapons fire.” The second reference also mentions “an enemy initiated firefight ... with water mines and automatic weapons.”

Thurlow, the commander of another swift boat who won a Bronze Star for helping the crew of PCF-3, insists there was no enemy gunfire during the incident. The citation and recommendation for Thurlow’s Bronze Star, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, also mention enemy fire, however.

Thurlow’s medal recommendation, for example, says he helped the PCF-3 crew “under constant enemy small arms fire.” That recommendation is signed by George Elliott, another member of the anti-Kerry group. It lists as the only witness for the incident Robert Eugene Lambert, an enlisted man who was not on Kerry’s boat who also won the Bronze Star that day.

Thurlow stood by his claim that there was no gunfire that day and said his Bronze Star documents were wrong.

Kerry’s campaign has released copies of the after-action report and Kerry’s Bronze Star nomination and citation for the incident, but not the weekly report.

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2004
Wed, 08-25-2004 - 2:13pm
This proves nothing, as the report had to be given by someone involved in the incident, and what some people are saying is that Kerry is the one that supplied the information on this incident for the after action report.

As I have said all along on this, we will never know what really happened, as we currently have at least three different versions of what happened on that day, and Kerry even changed his story about a week ago, so his credibility has suffered.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 08-25-2004 - 3:05pm
<>

What part of his story did Kerry change? I have not heard that on the news.

Also, in another thread you said that Kerry brought all of this on himself. Are you saying that he was wrong to say what he believes is the truth?

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2004
Wed, 08-25-2004 - 3:54pm
Kerry changed his story about keeping his boat at the scene of the mine exploding under PCF 3, as he now says that he didnt stay, and left the scene. Maybe I am confusing this with another issue, but I believe this is what I read....if I am wrong, please correct me.

With regards to your second point, yes, Kerry did bring this on himself. He spoke out about generalizations on attrocities that he said were committed by thousands of soldiers in vietnam. Did he witness these thousands of cases of attrocities, or is he giving a guestimate? Didnt he think that since his words in Washington were being used on the POW's still in Vietnam that there would not be a consequence, especially from other veterans? If he thought that, then he isnt as intellectual as he seems to think he is.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-24-2004
Wed, 08-25-2004 - 4:30pm
No need for me to re-type anything. debateguy has said what I would have said.
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2004
Wed, 08-25-2004 - 5:26pm
And I am just typing what John Kerry has said himself too....

The funny thing is I am not even attacking Kerry, I am merely stating the facts as Kerry himself has pointed out.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-24-2004
Wed, 08-25-2004 - 5:57pm
<>

He said that he was speaking out for others that told him of their experiences. He was also speaking of some personal events that happened while he was there. He was speaking out to make a very neccessary change to the way military operations in that war were carried out. I'm pretty sure you have had ample oportunity to read the entire statement from that day, so I don't see why you are only stating one side of it rather then showing the whole picture.

Venus

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-16-2004
Wed, 08-25-2004 - 10:19pm
He should have checked these people out before blindly believing their stories.

He himself admitted that he committed many of the same attrocities. Was this just another Kerry "story" as we have seen many of his versions of his tour in VietNam turn out to be, or is he truly a war criminal, who should be in prison?

Which is it? Either way, it is not good news for Kerry, and he has himself alone to blame.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-17-2004
Fri, 08-27-2004 - 9:39pm

Renee ~~~