The first rule of command

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
The first rule of command
23
Fri, 08-27-2004 - 5:00pm
I dreamed about my father last night. Dad's been dead almost thirty years, so I don't dream about him much, but I did last night. Dad was a Master Sargeant in the Air Force. He, for some of his time in, he trained young airman in Air Force Boot Camp.

One night, when we were talking about his time in the Air Force and some of the things he did to train young men, he told me, "You know what the first rule of command is? Never ask your men to do something you wouldn't do yourself."

Let's forget slamming Bush. Let's assume he did serve his time in the Guard honorably. But, as the Commander in Chief, he never spent at tour overseas, never when into a combat zone, was never shot at, never shot back, and never killed a man. Regardless of the medal argument, Kerry has done all of the above.

If the first rule of command is, "Never ask your men to do something you wouldn't do yourself." like Dad said, who has the better right to ask, Bush or Kerry?

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-21-2004
Sat, 08-28-2004 - 9:42am
EXCUSE ME....Bush most certainly DID ask and was granted a deferment, and then when it was almost up, his father mysterious managed to pull some serious clout to have his son moved up from number 500 on the waiting list to get into the Air National Guard, to number 1 on that list........
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 08-28-2004 - 10:18am
Where did you get this info from? I'd like to read it for myself. TIA.

Djie

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 08-28-2004 - 10:26am

What does this have to do with anything? How utterly lame.


So in your mind, when someone killed someone it makes him/her fit to be the CIC?


Or were you merely trying to be "witty"?

Djie

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 08-28-2004 - 10:30am

I don't think I missed the point.


I explained in post 3, why I don't agree with it.

Djie

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-21-2004
Sat, 08-28-2004 - 12:18pm
On the CNN News website...fairly easy fact to ascertain and find out about. Bush was 500th on the list for a spot in the Air National Guard, and with six days left on his deferment his Daddy pulled some strings to get him pushed to number one on the list. Even worse, Bush scored the worst possible score possible to even be considered for flight training...IE, if 70 were the cut off point, he got 70, and most times those low scoring canidates NEVER get accepted into the program, but again Bush Senior stepped in and flexed his political muscle to make it happen. Fact...Bush Junior was grounded for missing a physical...he missed said physical because he was hopped up on cocaine and booze. Lets go further...Bush Senior again stepped in and got his son and Honorable Discharge...does not take a rocket scientist to realize that the military does not let a good soldier go six months before his enlistment is over. You want to talk about someone who is a created myth, Bush is your man. By the way, any comments on how carefully the Bush clan has hidden the fact that Laura Bush was drunk killed someone.
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-21-2004
Sat, 08-28-2004 - 12:19pm
WAs tongue in cheek humor....George Bush hid from the war in Vietnam, as did Cheney, yet neither of them have any problems sending our boys over to die to settle a personal vendetta.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 08-28-2004 - 1:28pm

I searched CNN for <<"Bush was 500th on the list for a spot in the Air National Guard, and with six days left on his deferment his Daddy pulled some strings to get him pushed to number one on the list.">>.....found nothing


I searched CNN for <<"Bush scored the worst possible score possible to even be considered for flight training...IE, if 70 were the cut off point, he got 70, and most times those low scoring canidates NEVER get accepted into the program, but again Bush Senior stepped in and flexed his political muscle to make it happen.">>..... found nothing


I searched CNN for <<"Fact...Bush Junior was grounded for missing a physical...he missed said physical because he was hopped up on cocaine and booze.">>.....found nothing


Searched CNN for <<"Bush Senior again stepped in and got his son and Honorable Discharge">>.....found nothing


Googled all of the above....found op-eds


I did find the following on History Channel"






Debunking a myth: Bush AWOL?


The story goes like this.

<>

First of all, the abscence of records of attendance do not necessarily show the abscence of Bush. It can be spun that way, which is the way FJL tries to spin it. Tons of military records, including entire service records, have been lost by the military, whether it be by natural causes of nature, accidents, or just plain bad paperwork (which, the NG had the worst paperwork).

Secondly, is it really such a surprise that Gen. Turnipseed can't remember GWB reporting for duty? First of all, this is 31 yrs later. Secondly, GWB's father was not yet famous, or well known. In 1972, GHWB was the US ambassador to the UN. How many can name the current US ambassador to the UN? In 1968, when GWB first enlisted into the TANG, GHWB was even lesser well-known. Accordingly, family-recognition would just not be there in 1972.

GWB enlisted into the 147th Fighter-Inteceptor Group at Ellington Air Force Base, Houston on May 28, 1968 (during which time the 147th was actively engaged in combat in Vietnam, flying missions regularly). GWB would have been sent to Vietnam following completion of his flight training had the 147th Fighter Group been pulled out for reconstruction in mid-1968.

Clearly, had GWB wanted to stay away from Vietnam (or even had he had "higher connections"), he would not have enlisted into such a combat performing position (as pilot for advanced aircraft is, instead of, say, a desk clerk).

In the time frame from the start of his flight training in 1968 until spring 1972, where the records stop, NG records DO show GWB performed and attended the activities requested of him.

<>

It is true that GWB requested to perform duty for the three months mentioned above. However, the activities in September had already taken place. More dates were set up for early October and November, but GWB did not show up due to the Alabaman Senate Race.

Gen. Turnipseed (then a Col.) stated in interviews that missing training dates is perfectly allowed, so long as the same time is made up within the same quarter. Records show that Bush caught up his time later in November and in December. GWB also served everytime requested in January, April and May (with various other times served from late May till late July) in 1973.

In the nearly 2 year period between the end of his flight training and his move to Alabama, GWb logged more than enough time required of him. In his first four years of his commitment, GWB had logged 21 months on active duty, with 18 in flight school. Al Gore logged only a month more than GWB.

<>

Patently false, FJL ignores evidence reported in numerous sources. The records are there.

Lastly, GWB received an honorable discharge for accumulating more than the required amount of time spent on active duty. Sorry FJL, its just not logical. There are far easier ways to skirt the draft, and Vietnam. GWB did not take those routes, and he certainly did not have the help of "higher" placed-individuals. Clinton dodged the draft, he also protested it in the USSR, but you don't care about that do you because Clinton has that little "D" by his name?

The whole "Bush AWOL?" story has been looked into by numerous media sources, and each time, they come back saying the charge lacks truth.

Djie

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-07-2004
Sat, 08-28-2004 - 1:40pm
CNN search must be lousy, I searched using "bush national guard" & got nothing.

The History channel, despite its' nice name is a propaganda machine.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-07-2004
Sat, 08-28-2004 - 1:48pm
Turning the thruth upside down, black is white & white is black, cuz you say so.

Bush has no records to back up his service during that time, but it's all OK.

Kerry has military records that back up his medals, but they are being picked apart.




< First of all, the abscence of records of attendance do not necessarily show the abscence of Bush. >

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-21-2004
Sat, 08-28-2004 - 3:16pm
Funny how Republicans claim they can NEVER FIND negative facts about Bush...are they all really that stupid?